Retained Cud Study - 1921-D VAM-1-H

http://www.coinresource.com/article...ery_coin.htm

http://koinpro.tripod.com/OFD/18801cHSO.jpg

A reasonable pair of theories about "Longacre Doubling," second link is an excellent illustration of what it actually looks like. I don't necessarily buy the theories; the evidence the author presents doesn't quite support his conclusions.

I agree that neither of the theories presented in the link stand up to examination. Regarding the first, if you "shave" the sides of a punch, it chamfers the die. It doesn't "shelve" it unless you "shelve" the punch. Imagine how much work that would be.

The second is patently obvious - if you go over what you've punched a second time, moving the punch a little, the doubling won't be regular around the whole periphery of the device.

My working theory of die wear is rather weak, given the regularity of Longacre doubling mentioned in the article, but "Longacre doubling" is not always that nicely, neatly rounded. Nor did it cease in 1886, nor did it cease in 1869 when Longacre died. It's common on Indian Heads, seen on others, and not universal to any series or year.

The infrequency of finding it makes me think it was not a deliberate part of the production process. That, and deliberately adding it to a die would be an insane amount of painstaking work.

Not that my idea is stronger; my point is, I think this one's a mystery still awaiting a solution.

Generally speaking, Gene, it's called what it is because it appears on coins of Longacre's design. Some people are sure why it happens - I'm not one of them.

Don't quote me, but if memory serves I've seen it associated with a Jefferson nickel someplace. Does an annealing process lead to metal of perfect structural uniformity throughout (to the effective depth of the annealing)?

I have heard this term applied to many a denomination..as an exact accepted cause..yet even with the Morgan series which has all types of problems...why would this be new? or even so,, less understood and never applied to the morgan series...its like thinking of the new concept of "TRAIL DIES''''better and far know in understandings from the CBH dollars

Unsurprising to see on a 3CN. Nickel coins seem particularly susceptible to rim crumbling. The only examples of rim crumbling I own have been smooth-edge types like Jeffersons and Lincolns (also known for it). I'd like to see a heavily-crumbled reeded-edge to see if the collar was involved (or perhaps causative).

I am pretty certain that I have seen them.... I'll be on the look out.

Well, I thought that I would be sure to find something in the ongoing epic Morgan dollar thread.... but I didn't.... so probably the best thing for me to do is capitulate right now, and consider my idea as just more foolishness..... I saw lots of stuff, but upon blow up, it was probably just PMD.... I did find a couple that were promising, but not on any grand scale.... The reverses of Jeffreyice's 1883-O, and SeatedNut's 1880 v-6... that is the best I could do.


As far as the broken collar thing goes, I have considered the possibility of just such a thing before, so I don't really need to rethink it too much now.... I envision the collar as a ring with very slightly protruding vehicle radiator like fins (vertically) surrounding the inside of the ring.... My guess would be if a piece of that fell into the strike area, that not much of an impression at all would be transferred to either die, as the piece would be embedded into the coin that was being struck (I have seen coins with metal fragments embedded in them).... If no planchet were present, I think that the collar fragment would leave a nondescript gouge rather than denticle like impressions in either die, as only denticles should leave denticle like impressions in a die.... 1878-S v-17 for example.... I don't care who or how many folks say otherwise, those impressions were caused by a die fragment of denticle impressions caught between planchetless dies.... there is no other possibility, not tilted dies, not drunks banging dies together, not any other notion of nonsense.