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Replace The Dollar Bill With The Dollar Coin? New Twist...

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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  12:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
An age-old question that has found its way onto a number of threads on a number of message boards, but this version has a little twist on the usual 'coin collector' response of a hands-down opinion to immediately cease production of the dollar note.

Dave Harper of Numismatic News asked for input on this subject, to which I wrote:

---------------------------------------------------------

It only makes logical sense to replace the dollar note with the dollar coin - or does it?

At a cost of over 75c per note with an approximate six-month life span, the United States Treasury spends about $1.50 per annum for each linen dollar in circulation. Conversely, at a cost of about 5 cents per coin with a life span of nearly two decades (even if they were in circulation), the Treasury would spend about 1/4 of a cent per annum for each dollar coin in circulation. You do the math - it's pretty simple. We should switch to using $1 coins in a housekeeping effort to save us all a lot of taxpayer money - right?

As my favorite radio voice, Paul Harvey, would have said, "...and now, the rest of the story." The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) creates all of our "paper" money. Well, it is not really paper - our notes are made of rag linen, which is essentially cotton. Production of the $1 note comprises of about 40% of all notes produced by the BEP. In FY 2009, they produced 178 billion notes (yes, that was billion, with a 'b'). In 2008, the United States Mint produced fewer than 500 million dollar coins. The coin that comprises the majority of our circulating coins - the Lincoln Cent - saw a mintage of only 5.4 billion pieces. As the most minted coin in the world, the highest annual mintage of the Lincoln Cent in history was 1982 where over 16.7 billion pieces were minted. A little review - that number is less than one-tenth the number of dollar notes printed annually.

These facts lend to some questions that must be considered before a change-over takes place:

1. How many coins would be needed to replace the 150+ billion notes produced annually? Probably not as many as bills produced today, but the number would have to be substantial enough to warrant some deep thought before just 'changing over.'

2. Is the Mint capable of handling the new requirement - planchets, machinery, staff, metal supply? If you replace every dollar bill produced with a new coin, the Mint would have to make more than ten times the coins they currently produce - even temporarily, this is probably unrealistic.

3. Would the sudden reduction in the amount of rag linen required (without dollar notes) severely affect the cotton market and the company that produces the linen? How would it affect the cotton farmers? How would it affect the commodities market? How would it affect the BEP and jobs there?

4. Would the change-over end up costing the taxpayer even more money due to a possible restructuring of the departments (BEP and Mint) to handle such a large paradigm shift? Closing facilities, offices, and relocating them elsewhere...new equipment, new contracts, jobs lost, jobs gained.

I think a switch to dollar coins bears consideration, but it would be unwise to look at just the production numbers and cost per piece as our only source for a reason. There are a lot of facts to consider and requirements to ponder before just pulling the plug on our good old dollar note. Perhaps a look into some of the other countries who have made similar changes would be wise - Canada, Australia, Great Britain.

The one thing I do definitely support is that the Mint quit wasting their money making dollar coins while the dollar note is still in circulation. They have wasted a lot of taxpayer money on their 'programs' to get dollar coins circulating, and all have simply failed. Throw the switch one way or the other - either get rid of the note or get rid of the coin. Both cannot harmoniously exist in our pockets. I think the American public has voiced that opinion loud and clear.


Sources used in this report:

http://www.bestcoin.com/lincoln-cen...tage-two.htm
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/uscurre...figures.html
http://coins.coinupdate.com/preside...ar-mintages/

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Coinstar's Avatar
United States
1510 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinstar to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree-- the dollar coin is basically "unloved" by the public because of the weight-- the answer is to do one or the other-- but Americans are lazy and they wouldnt want to carry around all that weight without the paper dollar.

good article though
Retired USAF 1983-2003
Valued Member
Merc Crazy's Avatar
United States
201 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Merc Crazy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting article, but I think we'd still be better off with the dollar coin than the bill.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I totally agree - get rid of the note and circulate the coin...but it's much more complicated than that. The point of the article is that this would be nice on many levels, but with our current economy is it really possible?
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eaglefoot's Avatar
United States
6326 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eaglefoot to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this is the route they plan on taking no matter what.
It's just that, with the Govt., it takes DECADES sometimes to make a change.....especially an unpopular one.
In fact, "some" politicians may even fear re-election reprisals from the public (at least those barely hanging on)
I think it was decided (generally in theory) long ago to replace the $1.00 FRN with the Dollar coin.
The BILLIONS and BILLIONS of these coins that are being made each and every year, can only have one explanation, IMO.
It will take this many to "replace" the paper Note. I'm sure it will be a fairly slow gradual replacement.....but they'd need "BILLIONS" of these to do that.
All of those Sacagawea's....and Native Dollars
All of those Presidential dollars....
Even the Suzy B's might come back out from change jars and collections, and "re-circulate" again.......

Ha Ha....... who knows.....we might even start seeing the Ike Dollar make a return to circulation from the long lost closets and collections of Americans !! ....
After all, it IS still worth $1.00 face value.....and if it's "circulated", that's all it's worth to most numismatists as well ! ..... ...(No offense meant JB ! .... )

But anyway....... I think the Govt. is laying the groundwork for this "change" to happen......it may still be 10 years off or so......but it's coming nonetheless.
The economy will be different at that time too......(we hope !)
Valued Member
United States
460 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dumprat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion, it would take a combo of $1 coins plus upping production of the $2 note.

Also, some of your stats are conflicting...

1. You say it costs 75 cent per note?... Your second link down says it only costs 9.6 cents per note
2. Also, they only produced 1.858 billion $1 notes (still in 2nd link)

So figuring that (if stats are correct) they need to replace $1 notes every 6 months then in reality you should be able to cut the 1.858b in half.

That number is possible through the $2 note and $1 coin.

Just my opinion.
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mfhorn's Avatar
United States
959 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mfhorn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Quote: Ha Ha....... who knows.....we might even start seeing the Ike dollar make a return to circulation from the long lost closets and collections of Americans ! ....

Yeah........Also some MORGAN'S and Peace dollars as well. Bring it on!
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To respond to your points:

1. My 75 cents was a guess based on hearsay. I didn't find the actual number...you did.

2. What the heck was I thinking? That changes a lot. Oh well.

I still think it would be VERY tough on the Mint to just cease making the note and make a hard change to the coin. I do agree that the stockpiles of the coins in the Fed vaults will help with the shortage of what the mint can make, and I also agree that stepping up the $2 note could help a lot.

But that raises a new point...could we become a society of quarters and $2 bills because people will STILL refuse to circulate the $1 coins?
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Things to consider before taking your hand out of the campfire;

1.- Will there be enough cold water to keep the pain at bay?
2.- Will anyone be able to treat first degree burns? 2nd? 3rd?
3.- Is the hand evenly burned or done on only one side?
4.- What will be the effect on the fire? Is tissue actually burning yet contributing to the ability of the fire to propogate?
5.- What will replace that nice barbeque odor?

My Modest Proposal would be fire everyone who has allowed our currency to become obsolete. The savings would be so substantial from rationalizing the currency that we could issue all adversely affected parties a check for a million dollars. Rather than suypporting the linen industry through monumental waste just give them all a lot of money from the savings. Rather than keeping Crane and Co running at full employment give everyone a million dollars and tell them to stay home.

May as well send Congress home too. IN and WI have proven things run better without them.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Valued Member
United States
460 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dumprat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, Americans don't deal with change () unless it is stuffed down our throat. Would it be possible to switch over, yes. But how often does politicians do something that is fiscally responsible.

In a few years PayPal will rule the transaction world anyways. I'm just waiting for the RFID implant!

All joking aside, there are way too many other things we need to fix first before we try to do this.
Edited by dumprat
03/18/2011 3:16 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187582 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most already know where I stand on this, so there is no need for me to beat that dead horse. But if Canada can do it, so can we. Nothing against Canadians, but in my opinion, our nations are more alike than not; that is, they have already set a good precedent of success... over twenty years ago.
Valued Member
Guatemala
357 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  3:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JMerrick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What would be wrong with a compromise?

I'm thinking polymer notes for anything $20 or less.
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GRR's Avatar
United States
310 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GRR to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As someone said, they have to print twice as many $1 bills a year as they would coins, due to lifespan. Now as the years go on, the amount of required coin mintage would go down because the coins would still be in circulation. They would need less new $1 denominations. A bill may cost 9.5 cents to make but add in the transportation and such, I'm sure it's higher. The coin also costs about 12 cents to make, but after transportation and other manufacturing fees it's more like .35-40 to get it into circulation(still a profit)

Also since we've been mint $1 coins in mass since the SAC came into existence, I'm sure we have stockpiles of them. These stockpiles would make up for any shortfalls in manufacturing during a changeover.

I agree this would have to be done with the $2 being ramped up. The $2 keeps people from having a pocket full of change. You'd never receive more than (1) dollar coin back in change from any transaction. The increase in printing of the $2 bill would also probably keep the paper lobby happy since they'd be loosing the $1 bill money.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A few small problems with changing to those baby sized dollars.
1. A friend of mine has a vending machine company. Some of his machines take single bills and some even take a 5 dollar bill. All of his machines take all coins EXCEPT those baby sized dollars.
So just who is going to give him the money to modify all his equipment?
2. Same with all the other machines in laundromats, companies vending machines, hospital machines and on and on and on.
It appears that all those that want the new baby dollars insstead of currency really don't care abaut those people
3. Going to flea markets and similar places I always have a large amount of sincle bills. The reason is obvious. To haggle a price you need exact money. You just can't say I'll give you $4 for that since that is all I have. Then try to hand him a $5. Carrying 20 to 50 of those baby dollars would really be a pain in the ...
3. Conductors on commuter trains have those coin changers and many have told me to not hand him one of those baby dollars since there is no place for them. Who will pay for all those to be modified for those baby dollars.
4. I can't imagine how many people have used them for Quarters. I know I get them for quarters and have spent them for the same.
5. If they do change to all baby dollar coins there would have to be a billion dolars or more in advertising to educate the populace about them since so few know of them now.

Pillar of the Community
United States
958 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppertop5150 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the u.s mint should make $1 $2 $5 $10 coins.
Slowley put them into circulation as the old notes are destroyed.

People might not want to carry around 7 or 12 one dollar coins in there wallets.
So when they get 10 1 dollar coins they can trade them somewhere for $10 coin or 2 $5 coins

But carring around a $5 $2 $1 coins would lighten the load versus getting back a buncha dollar coins .
Making your change coin amount to carry around lower then carring around a buncha dollar coins

So use denomination on the coins that people will actually be willing to carry around in a pocket,
Makes modern day wallets all have zipper slots where people can slip inside the 1 ,5,10 coins .

My exp dealing with the public is females carry a purse and often dont mind carring the dollar coins around as they carry around a buncha change and a purse anyways.

Seems to be guys dont like lugging around the dollar coins or the thought of it.

why just eliminate the $1 bill ? might as well get ride of the $5 $10 bill as well
and throw in a $2 coin for making change eazier

Still keep $20 $50 $100 bills..for larger transactions.

I think you guys will see that $1 $2 $5 $10 coins used in many combinations can worl very well for making change for smaller purchses and also keep over all coin count in a person pockets low
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Darth Anarchus's Avatar
United States
1388 Posts
 Posted 03/18/2011  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Anarchus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure some vending machines are already compatible with the dollar coins. I think the money being saved from switching over to dollar coins could easily help the vending industry, as well as be used to "educate" the public. There will be millions of dollars saved just the first year(if this happens at all) to help all this along. It's just a matter of capable hands being responsible for this monumental task, in other words: NOT congress
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