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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,841 |
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Valued Member
Canada
88 Posts |
Hey guys, Here is one that almost resembles a 6A, but the breaks in this one dont match the ones on mine. It has the Hight tilted mm, and some on the same die cracks, but not the same on the date, and on the "states". I find this coin very interesting, and just wanted any thoughts you might have. Also, if you guys can guess a grade on this, I know they are just home printer scans, but the luster looks looks very good. anyway, I hope this one generates some discussions, and as alway, feel free to ask for more scans or close ups.... Thanks again, Mike.  .  .  .  .  Edited by Kempire
04/30/2011 01:03 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
if the die cracks are off then it can't be that specific VAM. That was one of the key factors that led us to question the VAM-85 I found last year. That was the first thing that was noticed on the Reverse because the Obverse matched another VAM but the Reverse cracks were way wrong |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
Quote:if the die cracks are off then it can't be that specific VAM. But there are some noticeable examples of multiple die pair vams aren't there? Today isn't such a good day for me to think about these kinda things. Edited by zeewool
04/30/2011 11:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
Zee, I take it no vamming on Saturdays and Sundays  Thanks for the laugh. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2373 Posts |
Looks like the sister coin to one I sent to LVA in Feb this year. His ident for the coin was Vam-9. LVA Comment: "Has O mint mark set high with tilt to the right of VAM 6 reverse C3e but with near date. Instead, has normal date lateral position of VAM 9 with C3e reverse listed in 2010 VAM Supplement." He went on to say the die chips along the crack from wing through AM were too small to list separately. Your coin is in better condition than mine, in the Lower AU range imo.      |
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Valued Member
 Canada
88 Posts |
I don't get it... If it's different than a vam-9 then how can they call it a one. The die cracks on our coins are completely different... I though I was getting a handle on this vamming thing, and now this... We should see what we can do at vamworld.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I didn't look at the VAM you were referring to last night because I was on my way out the door, the cracks can progress as they are struck but they should still be identifiable by the way the cracks are traveling. I agree your coin is not a VAM-6A like the original post asked, There are no pictures of the VAM-9 so I can't really say but if LVA said nlp's was a VAM-9 and yours matches his, then that's what it is |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I would agree with Bryan as its not a near date so it can not be a VAM 6 or 6A..it does seem to fit into the VAM 9 as your coin does appear to match NLP's coin however yours is a later state than NLP's as you have more defined cracks in united....still a VAM 9... |
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Valued Member
United States
133 Posts |
When using cracks and breaks to identify VAMS, it has to be the exact pattern, every zig and zag has to be there, otherwise its not the same. Be very careful when using cracks because they are like finger prints, it can be comparable to going to jail when your finger prints are almost like the perps. and none of us would want that to happen. You can have more of the crack then the reference coin but if you have less and also have other cracks that the reference coin doesn't have, then its a big no!
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Valued Member
Canada
88 Posts |
ok...so if they call these ones VAM 9s. then how about this other one I just scanned...the reverse shows the same breaks (or close too) but the obverse of this one shows completely different breaks. Look close at the UNUM. The VAM 9 states 'specimens will show extensive die cracks on left portion of obverse ' however, my breaks on on the right portion of the obverse. sorry guys, I'm just trying to figure this out. Sorry for the bad scans again, but I just wanted to scan them in quick to see if they matched...and they dont...   |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
There are three very different coins on this page, so I don't know which one is in question, but I'll take a chance that it is the first one?
I would call the first one vam-3..... the main focus on die cracks (or breaks, as they are called here) are irrelevant to anything.
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Valued Member
United States
133 Posts |
Now Zee, when they first posted it was in reference to VAM 6A and that is a VAM that is identified off the die cracks, it is listed in the VAM description for that VAM. I have a 6A in my collection so I thought I would try to help this newbie out since they used "almost resembles" with breaks, and I was trying to explain that cracks and breaks are an exact science in my opinion. Now for you Zee, if they "are irrelevant to anything", then how come they are used in the 6A description? |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
I don't know Smitty..... just another one of those inconsistencies in what some folks consider science I guess..... I thought that at one time I knew what a VAM was, but that notion was dispelled with the revelation of 'multi-die pair' vams...... I agree, a die can be identified with cracks..... I agree that a VAM can be identified with cracks.... but can a single VAM consist of multiple die pairs (each of these die pairs having their own unique set of cracks)? You didn't say one thing yet that I disagree with Smitty..... Answer my question though, and that might change. |
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Valued Member
Canada
88 Posts |
Wow.... I just wanted to figure out what VAM I had. And wanted to understand how I can identify vams myself without a doubt, but now I am just plain confused. What I have learned from this thread is that I could have a VAM 9, or a VAM 3, and that was determined by die cracks that do not count towards attributing vams. Just wanted to be clear. Thanks, mike..... |
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts |
As ocsjr2001 explained, and as nlp coins has shown, the second coin has the exact same rev crack as yours, and it is vam-9..... so yours too is vam-9.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
well said and explained...While die cracks/ not die breaks by them selves are not listed as vams, they are however secondary finger prints as many a die has failures and show break within the dies surface..for certain specific dies, part of the die pair thingy....the die cracks are specific/exact that is not found for all coins as they fail in there own EXACT way... for either OBV or REV dies.....one still follows the date and MM placement to channel to the general VAM ID, still one has to remember that the dies crack grow or extend as time goes by,,but they are still UNIQUE as they grow....this would be known as EDS and LDS early or later die states in general...however the die cracks follow the same process... |
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,841 |
Posted 04/30/2011 08:15 am
