Coins Back From NGC. Ouch!

It basically means they suspect that the color is not natural but they do not always get that one right, especially with toned coins.


I suspect that your coin may be a perfectly genuine 1931P with an added S mintmark. There is also the lesser chance that the entire coin is not genuine.

Of course, so all anyone can do is speculate on your problem

You know, when I've had my dealer send coins to ANACS, at least it came back "altered mintmark" instead of just "not genuine"

Don't the TPGs walk a line with declaring items fake? At what point do they have to turn them over to the Secret Service? I thought they marked them "unauthenticated" as in "I can't be SURE" instead of "not genuine" which means "fake".

Okay, I've wandered well off into areas where I really don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll quit now.

But, man, I bet you were disappointed opening that box! Even when I sent in coins I was 90% sure were altered, it was disappointing to find out they didn't make it. But that's got to be nothing compared to hearing they won't slab your coin because they decided they don't like the color.

oops -- correction, they slabbed your 25-D, just gave it a sort of scarlet letter.

I agree....if you bought both those coins from the same person, its time for a talk.

I would be upset to. Please post the pictures I would like to see them.

The altered color may have happened 50 years ago,possibly dipped and then retoned.It's pretty common with cents as it was pretty much accepted practice years ago.
The 31-S means exactly what it says, either an added MM or a counterfeit coin.Both are worthless.
And please do let us know what the seller says about it.All that matters to me is service after the sale because even the best can be fooled.That includes TPG's....I just witnessed a $500 misattributed 88-D RDV-006 in a slab.Nobody is perfect.

Practices vary among TPGs and probably change over time at each one. ICG returned my 1932-D quarter with a reject tag reading "added D mintmark" which certainly was specific enough. The dealer I purchased it from replaced it with a genuine coin without hesitation.

I agree with the other posters: you should contact the seller about the 1931-S and they should absolutely give you a refund. It's very likely they didn't know but they need to stand up and do the right thing.

On the altered color cent I'd say that's the luck of the draw. It can be very difficult to determine artificial toning or natural retoning on copper and the TPGs can be very inconsistent about what they consider to be a problem. Unless it was blatant I wouldn't attach too much blame to the seller.

How about those photos?

You can go here to view all of the pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/619437...27016914338/

I have them in a set so you can click on the individual picture to see a larger view. Please comment once you have seen them. I'm a collector and have been for years but I don't detect anything fake about these coins.

I wrote to NGC yesterday after receiving the coins. I inquired both for more explanation on the coins in question and also asked about a refund on the one that wasn't encapsulated. This was their response:

Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

Thank you for your email. Altered Color is the same as Artificial Color. Artificial Color refers to bronze, copper and copper-nickel coins that have been chemically dipped or cleaned. Under natural conditions, most copper coins will darken over time, but examples that retain their original "red" color are highly valued. That's why "Red Brown" (RB) or "Brown" (BN) copper coins are sometimes treated to remove this toning.
The resulting color usually has an unnatural and artificial look.

The coin that says Not Genuine means that the piece is either a souvenir replica or a counterfeit. Circulating counterfeits are contemporary with the coins they imitate and are intended to pass as money at their face value. Numismatic counterfeits are intended to deceive collectors and typically are made years after the originals. You will are charge if the coin grades or not.

Please feel free to email or call us should you have any further questions.

Thank you,

Lisa

Lisa Berzins
Lberzins@NGCcoin.com
NGC Customer Service
800-642-2646 Ext. 134


Judging by her response, I'm not even sure she looked at my order. I have replied to the email inquiring about specifics regarding the exact details of my coins that were flagged for color and genuineness. I have also provided NGC with this thread in hopes that they will take the time to reply to me or here on CCF since many of you use their grading services regularly.

I really dislike having coins slabbed and don't have any myself. I would never have had the 25D sent for slabbing since in about AU it is not really worth the cost unless you had it done really reasonably.
The 31S is a different story of course. As most would agree you may want to contact the seller for a refund.
Other obtions would be to try sending to another TPGS such as PCGS or ANACS or others. Might end up costing more than the coin is worth if it continues to come back as a fake though. There is a possibility that they made a mistake and naturally will not admit it without a resumittal and even then may not admit a mistake.
I would think your options would be bassed on how much you paid for those coins originally.