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Show Of Hands: Any Classic Pattern Collectors?

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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  03:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Thoughts on patterns? Anything cool to show off?
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Genuine patterns of coins that are of a design that are obviously preliminary to a coin that made it into production, are very rare. I have only one such piece.

There are other classes of patterns that are relatively common. For example, patterns of Euro coins were produced in large quantities to familiarise the population prior to the issue of the circulating designs. I have pattern Ecu and Euro pieces in this category.

Another class of patterns are the unofficial fantasy crown sized coins of Edward V111. I have a couple of these.

The British also did an official not issued series of pattern coins of Edward V111, which are museum pieces.

There were a series of patterns made at the time of Oliver Cromwell. They parallel the contemporary circulating coins. Although these coins were not officially issued, it appears that many of them did circulate widely. All of them are rare.

The French in 1848 made a whole series of patterns from 5 franc down, similar to the circulating coinage. These coins turn up occasionally at auction, priced typically at around $250.

The French also did a series of pretender coinageov Henri V, that parallels the circulating coins. I suspact that these were produced as a fund raising exercise. I have a silver 1 franc of this series.

Australia did an experimental series of square pattern pennies and half pennies. All of the examples in this series command huge prices at auction.

And almost all of us know of the famous 4 dollar gold Stellar patterns and the St Gaudens High Relief and Extremely High Relief Double Eagles.

Edited by sel_69l
06/24/2011 09:03 am
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rachums107's Avatar
United States
3345 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rachums107 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think they are really cool, but way to expensive.
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Jaobler's Avatar
United States
6384 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  1:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one pattern, a J-160 original 1854 proof large cent in NGC PR-65 BN. I liked the uncluttered design and considering what it would cost to purchase a regular proof large cent of any date this coin was a bargain. There are many beautiful pattern coins out there but at the moment I'm not too interested in getting any more, unless some tremendous bargain presented itself.

Here are photos:

Show-Of-Hands:-Any-Classic-Pattern-Collectors?

Show-Of-Hands:-Any-Classic-Pattern-Collectors?
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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  3:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jaobler - that's a beaut! So you don't see them as "real bargains" compared to circulating or proof coinage?

Sel - thanks for the International perspective! I saw what was advertised as a Henry V French on ebay a couple of weeks ago, but when I dug a little deeper, it was confusing as it was dated from the period of Henry II, I believe.
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Jaobler's Avatar
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6384 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So you don't see them as "real bargains" compared to circulating or proof coinage?


I do consider my J-160 cent a bargain, for two reasons.
1) The Philadelphia mint did not start making runs of proof coins for collectors until 1858 or so. Any proof issue of a standard-design coin dated 1857 or earlier is likely to cost at least $5,000. This pattern cost less than half that price.

2) Proof large cents of any date are scarce and expensive. The cheapest one sold through Heritage in the last two years went for $4140 and it was graded PR-63. Almost all the rest went for over $10,000. Obviously buying the pattern was the economy choice. The fact that I love the design made my decision pretty clear.
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Hambone's Avatar
United States
609 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hambone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sorry to sound a little dumb, but can I ask what exactly a pattern coin is?
pre-production maybe?
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muddler's Avatar
United States
7189 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add muddler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jaobler a fantastic pattern, clean fields, great detail a true gem!
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delaner's Avatar
United States
870 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add delaner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah Hambone - it's a pre-production test. My understanding is that the government would put out an RFP (basically) to designers saying, "we want to do this kind of coin". Numismatic designers then proposed coins for mintage and the best of those got a limited production run - sometimes a single coin, sometimes a a hundred or so to see what problems might arise with devices and metallurgy. =)
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Hambone's Avatar
United States
609 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2011  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hambone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So there are pattern coins that didnt make the cut? Those would be cool to have.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2011  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
can I ask what exactly a pattern coin is?

A true pattern piece is a coin of a proposed design, struck in the proper metal, that was not adopted. (As in my 1863 God Our Trust Two Cent Piece.) Or a coin of the adopted design in the proper metal but dated before it was actually adopted (Example the 1856 FE cent)

Often seen and called patterns are off-metal striking of both proposed and adopted designs, die trials, fantasies, and mules of dies that were never intended to go together
Edited by Conder101
06/26/2011 9:19 pm
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United States
511 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2011  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 3stooges to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Patterns are cool, but light years beyond my shoestring budget.
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Prethen's Avatar
United States
3234 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2011  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Prethen to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been VERY tempted to buy some patterns, especially 2-cent and 3-cent stuff. They generally run $2K-$4K for the stuff I like. The pattern market is very thin and it can be a bit tricky to get into a coin that you don't feel like you're buried in pricewise. I have been told by a friend of mine to stay away from the higher R# patterns and only go for things below R7 (I think...or even lower), but those really can get pricey.
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wwhitman's Avatar
United States
1415 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2011  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wwhitman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with the others.
So here is my pattern.
I've been tempted, but I know so little about them except that they are rare and very expensive

Ooops I don't have any
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Hambone's Avatar
United States
609 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2011  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hambone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Conder101

Sounds cool, Can you show a pic?
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jpsned's Avatar
United States
2200 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2011  11:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpsned to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I feel lucky enough just to see a picture of a pattern. No way would I ever be able to afford one, much less collect them.
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