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 Replies: 23 / Views: 10,833 |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
I recently purchased 17 1921 Morgans and 3 Peace dollars. I just received them today and they're shiny! At least the Morgans were. I do not have access to a gram scale to the hundredths, so I measured them and it would seem the measurements are a bit off, not by much, but still off. Per Wiki: Weight: 26.73 Grams Diameter: 38.1 mm Thickness: 2.4 mm Measuring the rim, the thickness of the Morgans are almost 2.95mm. Measuring the face, it's smaller, but still not 2.4mm. The diameter checks out. I'm getting a scale in the mail and hope to check it out that way, but with the talk of fake Morgans (I was duped once and owned a fake- don't have it anymore), this made me suspicious. Can someone shed some light on the thickness? Assuming the weight checks out, that will soothe me, but I put it out to the CC. I also got a Morgan in the batch with similar measurements that seemed to have been dropped. The fact that it's dented gives me some reassurance. Any comments?     Edited by wpd7
07/19/2011 9:03 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
I would be concerned. Can you post clear pictures of the edges of the coins? Fakes are often thicker to make up for the lighter weight of a non 90% silver alloy.
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Valued Member
 United States
257 Posts |
Yes, that's why I'm posting- to get some opinions before I file a Paypal claim. Here's the edges of several.  Edited by wpd7
07/19/2011 9:43 pm
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
Wish I had my scale on hand to check these. Does anyone know where exactly the 2.4mm thickness is supposed to be measured at?
Edited by wpd7
07/19/2011 9:56 pm
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Moderator
 United States
14463 Posts |
FYI - my almost BU Morgan has a thickness at the edge of almost 2.8 mm, my more worn Morgan has a thickness at the edge of 2.4 mm Some grooves in the edge on your last picture, look a little odd. They don't seem perfectly perpendicular to the face.  Edited by Fuzzy317
07/19/2011 11:10 pm
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
Hmm, so it would seem that even with your Morgans, there's a variety.
I'm just wondering where the 2.4mm measurement should be measured at. It's obvious that the edge would be higher versus the "flat" areas of the coin.
I'm waiting for my scale to come in- should be within the week and it should be within Paypal's protection period. If the weight is off, I'll file. Since these coins are relatively good condition, the weight should be the same.
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
Just noticed CC messed up my picture links. The first pic set should have the last picture of the dinged coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Thickness is a function of striking pressure and can be variable, especially on a complicated production like silver dollars. Higher striking pressure will create a coin with a thicker rim. Also, the US Mint does not utilize thickness as a standardized tolerance. You can perform the ring test and the tissue test to verify silver content without weighing the coins. The ring test checks the sound of a coin when dropped on a solid surface. The tissue test checks light refraction. Place a thin tissue over a known silver coin- notice that the coin reflects bright white. Place a tissue over a known nickel coin or other white metal composition- it will reflect darkly. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12813 Posts |
Let's also remember that we're dealing with coins that were minted a long, long time ago. QA then is not what it is now. Manufacturing methods did not necessarily guarantee identical product.
AND in that 100 or so years, who knows what has happened to the coins (kind of a fun thing to think about anyway)? Standard wear and tear could have worn down the soft silver. Are you convinced that they are at least 90% silver? Could you could just add them to your silver trove if they are not genuine?
By the way, Fuzzy, I see what you're talking about with the reeding seeming to be off, but after staring at the picture several ways for a while, they all appear perpendicular to the face of the coins. Attributable IHMO to optical illusion/manufacturing anomalies/wear.
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
I'm one of those cant hear silver sort of people so the ring test is out. I'll do the tissue test when I get home. When you say tissue, do you mean tissue or tissue paper? Any specific type, ie toilet vs facial, etc? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Thin single ply kleenex or toilet paper will work.
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Valued Member
United States
374 Posts |
im guessing there real. my friend bought some fake morgans years ago but they were cast. Once you looked hard and tryed the ring test it was obviuos.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Thickness standards could only be applied to the blank before upsetting or to the strip itself. Lots of genuine Morgan dollars are "shiny". In fact more are shiny than not shiny. Quote:
Let's also remember that we're dealing with coins that were minted a long, long time ago. QA then is not what it is now. You might be surprised at what Quality control was like back then. Weight Tolerance was to within .3% And the blanks were each weighed both before and after striking. Today the Weight Tolerance is to within 3.7% Even when they last had silver in them, the 40% coins, the tolerance was to within 4%. So QA was stricter back then than today. |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
tissue test passed. I guess if the weight checks out I'm in the clear....
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
Did you try the magnet test?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
As Newbi said, use a magnet. The majority of fakes are steel.
And dont let paranoia drive you to this point. As stated thickness is NOT a reliable measure as many different factors influence how thick a coin is. Buy a magnet and glue a piece of felt to it. Place it on any questionable coins. The felt will protect the real ones. And there you go. A simple test that will weed out the vast majority of any fakes.
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Replies: 23 / Views: 10,833 |
Posted 07/19/2011 9:42 pm
