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 Replies: 18 / Views: 26,274 |
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Hello all! I'm brand new to the coin realm and am pretty lost to say the least. I have an opportunity to buy this coin (Pics and stats listed below):    I can buy the coin for I feel a good price. I like the history, but honestly am looking to resell for profit, cause I've got a baby on the way. Any money I make is going to help us significantly. Upon research, I've found Mel Fisher, whom the coin was certified, appraises the coin for 2,300. http://www.melfisher.com/Library/COA_Appraisal.aspObviously I'm not going to get retail value, but what is a good figure I can expect from it? How hard is it to actually find a museum/ collector to purchase this coin? Do you recommend any sites and or communities that purchase these type of coins? I've got more pics available if you need them. Thank you so much for any help in this manner.  P.s. If this post is the wrong section let me and know and I'll move it. Thanks. A better image of the shield turned properly:  Edited by romans421
09/14/2011 5:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2870 Posts |
To be honest, this coin is in such bad condition no-body would want to buy it. The $2,300 valuation is fairy dust.
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New Member
 United States
6 Posts |
Yeah, that was one of my concerns. I don't know to what degree it matters, but the certificate lists the grade as "2". Does that help the cause at all?
Obviously, being the coin is from the late 1600's and shipwrecked, it's not going to be perfect, but is this particular coin far beyond that of other coins to this era?
Thank you!
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2870 Posts |
While I'm not in the US, and don't know all the grading companies there (coin grading to n'th degree is a US thing) - I've never heard of that company. They look like one of those TV companies that inflate everything to 10 times the price but have very good sales patter. Personally I don't think that certificate is worth the paper it's written on.
Congratulations on the baby - but don't take this "get rich quick" option
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Thank you for your words and suggestions. The gentleman I am/was considering purchasing this from is selling for three hundred usd. Obviously I wasn't expecting the 2,000 mark, but I was thinking possible getting 600-700 for it.
Do you think that is out of the realm?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
It is a $100 dollar coin. The aftermarket is full of Atocha coins. The only place anyone is going to get $2300 for that coin is in the "Mel Fisher Treasure Museum" where they sell "the romance of the ship wreck and recovery" to tourists off the cruise ships in Key West. And that coin is not even nice. You are not likely to make any flip money on a treasure coin unless you
a. find it yourself or
b. buy it knowing something about the coin that the seller doesn't such as rare assayer or style. Not likely anymore but pretty common in the 60's and 70's when these started coming into the market in large numebrs and very few people knew anything about them.
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Thank you all!
This is exactly why I ask people who know what they are talking about before doing anything drastic.
I really appreciate you guys letting me pick your brains about this matter.
It's crazy how Melvin Fisher is still in business after ripping people off as bad and his company does. I know there are crooks in every field, but this just seems absurd to value something worth nothing as $2,300 dollars!
Again, thank you all!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Mel Fisher passed away, his company is still around because they are able to sell the romance of the shipwrecks to the tourists and they own 2 really nice museums in Florida. Plus they still have an ongoing salvage operation going on the Atocha site. Their target market is not the coin collector.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
This whole thread is rather amusing... I understand you have a kid coming, you're trying... but let's look at this for a minute: "Hi, I'd like to buy this, and I'm hoping the seller is only charging half of its actual worth so I can flip it for double. However, I know nothing about these at all, and have done close to zero research (didn't even bother checking ebay completed auctions). Can you please then tell me if I can indeed flip this for double?" "Oh, and what's with this Melvin guy (whom I clearly am not familiar with at all since I call him "MelVIN") charging all that money for the stuff that they salvaged? It's not worth that at all... they should be made to charge ____ amount so collectors don't have to bother learning anything at all." Anyway... specifics - As everyone else said, the Fishers' $2300 appraisal is tourist hype price, not reflective of general market conditions. The market for this isn't perfectly rational, of course, but that much can be stated without any question. However, it isn't worthless or only a $100 piece, either... You are showing a Grade II Potosi 4 Reales... no special variety with this coin, assayer not visible (but it's a typical 1610's piece), decent weight, though the shield is a bit smeggy for a Grade II. Nevertheless, with the cert (and there's supposed to be a 2-inch flip insert tag there also)... depending on how well you display it, this type of piece will normally bring somewhere in the $225-325 range on ebay - which I'm guessing would be your outlet. There seems to have been an uptick over the past year or two in prices, looking at ebay and other auction results... seems like one could nab a piece like this on ebay for 150-200 two years back. Note, BTW, in the case of Atocha coins, most of the value is in the original paperwork (as was mentioned, people like the romance, hunting for treasure, blah, blah... get "pirates" or "doubloons" involved and people really get in a tizzy)... If this was just a generic shipwreck cob with no papers, it would be a $60 or so piece. Really, if you can't get this for $200 or reasonably close, you won't make anything on it... If you want to make money buying/selling, a good first step is to LEARN a little about what you're trying to sell. At least you asked before jumping... Good luck with the baby. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
I stand corrected on value, I didn't notice that it was a 4 reales. That would give it higher value. Common grade 2 Atocha 8 reales sell at large coin shows in the $100 range. I don't know about ebay but based on Realeswatcher's post, it seems prices are slightly higher there. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
4R and 8R go for about the same money, generally... If you can find Grade II Atocha 8R (or 4R) for $100 a pop at these large shows (ACTUAL Atocha pieces, with proper Treasure Salvors photocerts and flip tags, of course... not generic sea salvage)... you should back the wheelbarrow up!
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Lol. I don't want you to think I haven't done research. I am a business man and always do research, but the information is extremely conflicting. On one hand, you have Mel Fisher (MELVIN PER THE AUTHENTICITY CERT) that appraises it at $2,300 and then you see these on ebay for $500-600. That is not typical. You may have some discrepancies, but in the thousands! I'll be the first to admit that it was a long shot, but that's why I do my own research and ask people already in the field. I don't really need to justify myself, but I feel the need to explain that I not leeching information off you guys without me doing my own research- I'm not a lazy socialist. LOL. This does have the flap, certificate, auction papers and pouch by the way.. My friend who was selling it to me bought it for $300 back in 90 and just wanted his money back. He is ticked that it's not worth more, as he was told my a museum appraiser it was worth $1,200 back in 90! I've made several calls in my local area and everyone is saying $50-100. Needless to I won't be buying it and he is fiery mad! lol Enough stories! Thanks everyone. Edited by romans421
09/16/2011 5:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
.. not a lazy socialist ? Maybe a lazy ...
whatever, politic don't have its place here ;)
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New Member
United States
6 Posts |
Lol. Ok, ok, ok.... let me rephrase.....
I'm not a lazy..... man. lol
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Pillar of the Community
France
1591 Posts |
I hope your friend will manage to resell his coin, but he will hardly get as much as he paid (and I fear he won't win anything) ...
The best place to sell it would be at the museum itself, that's where peoples pay much premium.
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Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
A Grade #2 Atocha coin is near the top. You will need to match the coin with the certification and make sure the appraisal also matches. Then your artifact is genuine. The coin looks good to me. It was on a shipwreck for a long time and they never look mint state. There are many fakes out there so make sure your documents are in order. You should get a minimum of 60% of the appraisal if the coin in authentic. Some retailers get 90% if the documents are in order and the coin is real. It is the most sought after shipwrecked coin.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 26,274 |
Posted 09/14/2011 5:42 pm
