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You Vs. PCGS 1898-O Mogan

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chris beatie's Avatar
344 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  04:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chris beatie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I got a question. How come the huge nicks on the neck dont drop this down considerably to au status?

The coin has nice luster most of it is in amazing shape but it does have two monster dings on the neck and a couple tiny scratches in a few spots.
Valued Member
Whytlash's Avatar
United States
407 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  06:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Whytlash to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Because those are not huge nicks in the neck. And a couple of nicks do not turn something uncirculated (portraying no circulation wear) into something NOT uncirculated. A couple of nicks and a couple couple tiny scratches in a few spots are not indicative of circulation. They are an indication that the coin spent time in a bag with other coins, as Morgan dollars did in their early lives.

When I first looked at it the other day I thought "I'd go 64 on it. It's clean, but not clean enough to go 65, I don't think."

You have to understand the grading scale. And it's exactly that: a SCALE. When talking uncirculated you are now on a scale of 0 to 10 (MS-60 to MS-70). At MS-60 there is quite an allowable amount of bag contact marks and handling marks. As you move up from one number to the next, the allowable amount reduces. When you get to 64 there is a very noticeable reduction in contact marks, but there is still a small amount allowable. What this coin evidences in contact marks is what I'd expect to see on a 64. In other words, not a lot. And when you say "not a lot" that means "a few". When you get to a 65 there are even fewer. The highest grade I've personally seen is a couple examples of MS-67 and there is a HUGE difference. On the other side of the coin (pun intended) an MS-60 can have "quite a few".

There's a bit more that goes into it, but that's a really short version.

Hope this helps,

Steve
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BrickellCat's Avatar
United States
558 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BrickellCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the subject of the neck area, does it appear to be raised metal?

You-Vs.-PCGS-1898-O-Mogan
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kylecolb's Avatar
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kylecolb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
looks like it could be, but also looks like it could be metal displacement from an other coin hitting it one time. hard to tell if not in hand.
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United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  10:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now don't hold me to this, I could be mistaken, but I do believe I've seen that neck on another 1898-O. If that's the case, it could be a die defect. Check out some other 1898-Os in the online auctions. If you can find another neck like that, I'd think that's pretty compelling evidence it's some kind of die defect.
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kylecolb's Avatar
United States
438 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kylecolb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will have to look at mine when I get home but I do not remember that on the neck.
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United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  1:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll check out the online auctions when I get some time, tonight. Hey, if I'm mistaken, I'm mistaken, it happens. I'll look in my old files, too.
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely resubmit that one should get an upgrade to at least 65.

No way that is an MS-64 by modern grading standards way too nice.
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United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reason this won't make MS65 is because of the strike. The nicks aren't the issue.
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Canadian-Banknotes's Avatar
Canada
4944 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  4:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Canadian-Banknotes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Definitely resubmit that one should get an upgrade to at least 65.

No way that is an MS-64 by modern grading standards way too nice.


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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2011  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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fenton's Avatar
United States
4989 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  01:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My 1898-O graded MS-66 by NGC has similar neck issues, strike, luster, and surface markings

Hence, I have to feel NGC would be pretty generous if this coin was submitted to them raw
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BrickellCat's Avatar
United States
558 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  02:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BrickellCat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll wait till I get the coin in hand and see it before deciding weather to crack it out and submit it to NGC. I compared it to some Heritage archives and it looks similar to some of the MS66's. There is also the fact that it is in a first generation PCGS holder which should carry some premium. Thanks again for the insight.
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United States
1547 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2011  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eddiespin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My 1898-O graded MS-66 by NGC has similar neck issues
I didn't have time to check last night. Thanks for noticing that. For minute, there, I was starting to question myself.
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streg2's Avatar
United States
171 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add streg2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe its a lock 65 and has a good shot at 66. With the New Orleans mint being known for weak strikes this example is on the stronger side, just a tad weak in the hair and right talon. They take that in account, sometimes.
I have held a 1881 s that was graded ms68 and didn't even have to look close to wonder why in the world in this was graded 68. Have seen nicer 66's

Sweet Morgan
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