| Author |
 Replies: 1,517 / Views: 102,460 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5637 Posts |
$928.00 dollars for 11 sets of coins to be graded, good luck. I hope your money brings the grades you seek!!!!!! PS, I see why the PCGS slabs sell for more, They certainly cost more, thats insane, enjoy collecting what ever it is you choose, Mike........$34.37+ per coin, thats the price of 30 oz's of silver?
|
|
Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
Quote:
The FS/ER labels do mean something, just not what their name implies. ER label means exactly what it implies. It means that the coin so designated was among those released to customers in the first 30 days and delivered to NGC in the same period. Keep in mind that NGC did use to offer First Strike label, but stopped doing so since it was essentially a lie. With US Mint there is absolutely no way to know when the coins were struck. Quote:
My issue is with the TPGs and Telemismatists who continue to imply that the labels mean that the coins are somehow special. You're painting with too broad a brush. NGC, for example, is implying no such thing. You can tell because their price guide (Numismedia) does not distinguish between ER and non-ER coins. Their Registry awards the same number of points regardless of ER or non-ER status. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
ER label means exactly what it implies.  I get what you are saying but really it doesn't mean what it says. Theres nothing early about a release that ships after selling is closed or during the proper shipping period. Early would imply before that time not the first 30 days. I like the idea of the labels if the mint were to somehow find a way to confirm the first batch or so of coins. But until then its just something extra for the label. That said if its the same price Ill get that label. The NGC ones are a no brainer like mentioned since theyres no charge. The PCGS ones do look nice with the flag in the corner. I cant blame the TPGs for it. No one forced them to make it. They offered it and people liked it so they kept doing it. Just a free market at work. Generally FS/ER coin populations are smaller so it is a way to sort of get a lower pop coin for the massively population moderns. Either way if you like it get it, if not dont. A 70 that was struck first or last is still a 70 which is what people are really hoping for with modern submissions anyway. You cant get anymore perfect |
|
Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
Quote:
if the mint were to somehow find a way to confirm the first batch or so of coins. Other mints (e.g. Perth) do occasionally provide that a batch of coins was the first struck. The result is the a label that states that the coin is One of first XXX Struck. This is done to satisfy the dealers. Of course it's easier to do when you produce coins with a total mintage of 5,000 than 500,000. Quote:
Generally FS/ER coin populations are smaller Only not so much anymore. Last year's Army Silver graded by NGC, ER outnumbered non-ER by more than 3 to 1. The 2011 reverse proof ASE, ER outnumbered plain by 8 to 1. That's bound to change some as more coins get graded after the deadline, but you get the picture. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote:
With the 2012 I sent 6 sets in to PCGS at a cost of $418 and the jury is still out, but in the long run at 30% 70s I believe I will Make my money back +
Well...good luck. Maybe you will do well. That's what this collector thought with his San Fran sets PCGS submission and he has a LOT of experience and over a thousand posts on a major coin forum Quote:
Out of 11 sf's submitted (cherried) ALL came back 69's, 1 68. Most of them looked near perfect sans frost breaks. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote:
I get what you are saying but really it doesn't mean what it says. Theres nothing early about a release that ships after selling is closed or during the proper shipping period. Early would imply before that time not the first 30 days. I get where you're coming from...but...the Mint does not release ANY coins before the official release date...and actually this SF set DOES have a group of coins (early orders) that were minted and "released" before the whole issue is eventually shipped. Early Release just implies a coin from the earlier Mint shipments and it applies to all minted coins. Whether it ACTUALLY means anything is up to the individual collector to decide. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Right the mint doesn't realse coins before the release date (well unless you're a large dealer), that's the point. ER is no more factually accurate than FS. Its all just a gimmick, and a genius one at that. I tip my hat to who ever thought of it first. If it helps keep the financials strong without a forced price run up on everything I'm all for it. Its better for us for the same TPG to survive for a long time instead of having them come and go anyway. Lx that's true about ngc er, but theirs has gotten out of control because they started offering it free with special labels or just put it on unless you specified not to in some cases. It does look weird to see that's how that one ended up. The special ASE sets will also be er/fs heavy just because of how they're realsed. More people may be liking them now too or maybe they throw that in free now with bulk submissions who really knows. They're certainly are some cool looking fs/er labels though |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
959 Posts |
I started coin collecting long before the TPG services were around. It was my hobby then, and still is. Would rather spend my money on a coin or note than give it to these guys. My personal opinion! |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1026 Posts |
Quite a stir-up... :) The problem I have with ER & FS is that there is NO way you can tell by the physical appearance of the coin if it was released early/struck first or not. That's a fact! Sure, you can tell the difference between 69 & 70, but ER/FS or not? No. So why pay extra for that? And why do people pay for special labels - SF coins with a trolley? You're buying the label not the coin. This is just madness. I congratulate all who bought their PF70's for $229. That's an excellent price, but do you really think that an ER/FS designation will make it more valuable if there is no way to tell if the coin actually was ER/FS? I don't get it... The mint could have stockpiled all 250k+ coins and the ones released first could be the last struck (that would be a new label - "early release + last struck"). Do you really think the Mint sorts coins by the day they were struck and then makes sure to sell those struck first to begin with? The same thing applies to bullion eagle struck at the SF Mint - again, no way you can tell, but people pay extra for that. I haven't checked recent prices, but when they were released there was a premium associated with it. Likewise, I don't get the obsession with low numbers in certificates. Some collectors are willing to pay a huge premium because the certificate says 0001 rather than 4356 for example. This has nothing to do with the coin. Madness! This whole thing which the TPG's started drags down coin collecting into ridicule. You might as well have a label for a coin which was touched with velvet gloves by a naked virgin... Of course, everyone is free to do whatever they want to with their money. And I for myself bought a lot of clad, which makes me an idiot, too, then! :) Let's leave the discussion and go back to collecting. I honestly didn't mean to insult anyone, but just wanted to make everyone aware of some truths... |
|
Valued Member
United States
194 Posts |
All that er and fs hoopla pales in comparison with the fact that nicked up coins are getting graded 70 and certain slabs seem to invite milk spots. I'm less concerned with labeling than with consistency of grading.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
And why do people pay for special labels - SF coins with a trolley? You're buying the label not the coin. This is just madness.
Your paying for a nice addition to the coin you like. Its no different than buying an album or folder for it Quote:
certain slabs seem to invite milk spots My understanding is that milk spots have to do with how the planchet was treated and dried and are the fault of the mint as opposed to storage. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1027 Posts |
How do I get a job at the Velvet Virgin TPG? I do not slab my coins and only buy slabbed coins when I can get images good enough to grade (and value) them myself. I don't buy sight unseen, like just ordering a particular grade and TPG coin from a vendor. I do admit, however that I am considering doing exactly that to get the bullion versions of the ATB pucks. If I decide that I can afford them, I will buy PCGS MS69 DMPL versions of the bullion AtBs, to have fully brilliant counterparts to my satin finish P mark set. As with most of my slabbed purchases, they will probably come out of the slabs once they get in my hands since I won't be selling them anytime soon if at all. Because I am after fully brilliant coins, just ordering raw coins would probably end up being more expensive, even if I resold the ones that did not meet my specs. For those who do collect slabbed coins, I think it makes perfect sense to desire both consistency and beauty in the label. It is OK to pay for the label when that is what you are buying. Just put a value on the coin, a value on the label, add them together and try to get that price. The real point of "buy the coin not the label" is don't let the label mislead you about the coin. |
|
Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
Quote:
The problem I have with ER & FS is that there is NO way you can tell by the physical appearance of the coin if it was released early/struck first or not. While I agree that ER/FS hold no value, the mere fact that two coins are physically identical, does not mean they do not have different value. A label certifying coin's pedigree is very useful. If a particular coin was part of a great collection, that would most certainly add to its value. Quote:
And why do people pay for special labels - SF coins with a trolley? Except they don't. NGC charges the same for a trolley label as any other for the same coin. Special labels may acquire a tiny premium later, but initially they cost the same regardless of what picture is used. |
|
Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
Quote:
that's true about ngc er, but theirs has gotten out of control because they started offering it free That tells you all you need to know about the value of ER designation. If it's free, that's how much it really is worth. |
|
Valued Member
United States
102 Posts |
Quote:
I will buy PCGS MS69 DMPL versions of the bullion AtBs, to have fully brilliant counterparts to my satin finish P mark set. As with most of my slabbed purchases, they will probably come out of the slabs once they get in my hands since I won't be selling them anytime soon if at all. I'd like to understand why. I can see not slabbing the coin in the first place or paying premium for the slab, but once it's done, what is gained by removing the coin from the slab? Slabbed coins are easier to store and are better protected from elements. |
| |
Replies: 1,517 / Views: 102,460 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 08/28/2012 11:35 pm
