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89-CC Morgan

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rob oz's Avatar
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rob oz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are there any good pics around showing an added mint mark? Preferably a "CC", but I guess any would do. I'd be curious to see what one looks like and compare it myself as well.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look very carefully around the mint mark area for a depression formed by shifting metal to create the mint mark. It will be subtle; as 1892S mentioned, this is usually done with slightly-circulated coins so the remaining area where metal was moved can be artificially "worn" to mask the work.

Another slight possibility for an added mint mark is to bore in from the rim of the coin to force metal upwards from the inside. Yes, they're *that* hardcore about it. You'll want to examine the rim minutely in the area closest to the mint mark for any signs of tampering.

I am contacting someone who will probably be able to render a strong opinion based on the images you've already taken. The downside to his opinion is that he's probably going to want you to submit it to the grading company he works for.

This close to FUN, he might not be available for the next week plus.
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ThisIsFun's Avatar
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm just a newbie caught up in this excitement and have no special knowledge to contribute, but I cut and pasted an assortment of 1889-CC Morgan mint marks from PCGS's CoinFacts population archive, just so you'd have some other pictures for comparison :) Some of them look closer together like rob oz's coin.

89-CC-Morgan
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen altered mint marks that have fooled me bigtime. These crooks have it down to a science, and they can be very crafty. Buddy of mine had a 1916-D Mercury where one day, the "D" suddenly wasn't there. It popped off!
The key is knowing the diagnostics and authentication.
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rob oz's Avatar
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rob oz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mint mark fell off? That's just crazy. It's sad that people put that much effort into being bad and/or doing bad. Also thanks for the pics "ThisIsFun". I don't see any sign of depression around the mint mark or anything odd. Though that's just what I see. Same with the rim. I'm not sure I'd know if it was a problem area even if it was starring me right in the face.
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My fingers are crossed for you rob oz!

This has been a great thread to follow. From someone who can only watch from the sidelines for all the educational information shared here.
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rob oz's Avatar
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rob oz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My fingers are crossed for you rob oz!


Well I'm glad it's intriguing. My emotions have been a roller coaster today. I guess time will. Thanks.
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 Posted 01/06/2013  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rob, I'm still thinking it's real, but, counterfeiters are really, really good these days and at times you need high power microscopes to detect problem coins. This may be the case in this instance.
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  11:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am far from knowledgeable on VAMs, so if there is a spacing issue on the MM, I wouldn't know about it. But, I perused pics of them like ThisIsFun did, and I saw a number of graded examples where the MM looked to be close as this one is. I am still throwing my hat in the genuine ring. SEND IT IN. You can go to the ANACS site, join, print the form, send it in priority mail and have it being graded before the end of the week. The best grader in the world can't be 100% positive until it is in his/her hands.
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  11:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the reason I was so reserved with my first comment... I agree with SsuperDdave about the CC.. thats why said something popped out at me and I asked for a closer shot of the CC ("close and from dead on straight") right after the 2nd set of photos were requested. I also couldn't match it up to any die combinations that would fit the CC & both sides.. But thought due to the qualities of the photos and my lack of knowledge it was just me.. Because I cant get photos of the ones on any of my Morgans. And the fact that I'm very new to VAMing and many more on here know far more than I do ... So I figured I'd just shut my mouth.. Lol.
But then I noticed the die clash in the perfect spot to the right of the eagles left wing and have never seen a counterfeit with that... So that led me to even more confusion.. Although again, I don't have all that much experience with counterfited coins in general, let alone have held a 89cc in my hands, real or otherwise.. And know that the key dates are done extremely well... Otherwise they'de be noticeable in a second.
I'm really looking forward to the other experts opinion as this will be a great lesson for many of us whichever way it goes.. And I really hope it is authentic... I could only wish for one as nice!
Lol, on a side note I couldn't sleep all night last night and after you mentioned Craigslist (I think right after my first post) I was on my local Craigslist for hours, lol... Soooo tired! There was actually a really beat & damaged (scratches on face) 89cc for $450 a few towns over from me but that one definitely looked "off" (china 9 I believe).. I emailed the seller and he wrote back today saying he meant to take the post down and the coin was at PCGS and he'd let me know what the outcome was and repost if authentic.. Which he still believed it to be...
Sorry to get off subject, just wanted to let you know you sparked a stronger interest in this subject for me I really hope this goes your way as that would be an amazing addition to any collection!!
And I just have to say it again, lol... What a great, educational enterance you've made!!
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  12:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a complete noob with Morgan dollars, but I enjoy studying small details--I collect overdates
Can anyone explain what is happening with the tops of the CC--repunching, die breaks, or die gouges?
I hope the coin turns out OK!


Quote:
Those C's in the mint mark are too close together.
I noticed that right away, and since I'm a total noob here--a question--does anyone know if the "CC" mintmark was a single punch for this year, or those Cs were punched individually?

89-CC-Morgan

to CCF!
Edited by DVCollector
01/07/2013 2:12 pm
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
16679 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  12:42 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will just add that it has that correct look with the frost so much associated with Comstock silver ;) I wish you luck! Let us know.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  02:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Part of the reason why I was unsure of this coin is that I was having trouble matching the coin to one of the known die pairs. I probably should have explained myself earlier but I mentioned the crack by the E in America partly because I haven't found any mention of a die crack at that location on genuine examples yet. Though I can't be entirely sure from the first pics, it seems to have a mushy appearance which I remember learning can happen to fine details like die cracks during the transfer die process. The style of the mintmark does have me slightly worried. The triangular shaped interior of the first C in particular does not seem to match the more oval interior shown in the ANACS article. I still remain unsure of the coin's authenticity.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The style of the mintmark does have me slightly worried. The triangular shaped interior of the first C in particular does not seem to match the more oval interior shown in the ANACS article.
I claim zero expertise here, so what helps me is to compare the OP coin to verified examples. Here I've cobbled together this coin against reverses A-E from the Anacs article. While the OP's photo is a bit grainy, I'm still unsure why the shape and spacing of the CCs are unique to his coin?

89-CC-Morgan
Edited by DVCollector
01/07/2013 3:20 pm
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tomtom777's Avatar
United States
243 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a noticable spacing differance and style in the CC when looking at them side by side like that.
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