VAM_it

its definitely a VAM-17 no ifs ands or buts about it, in every book that the VAM-17 and 17A are in the Obverse matches, the Reverse matches also except I am not positive that the VAM17 is before the 17 because mine shows ALLOT of polishing on the Reverse that I think is where that were done because of the clashing on the 17A. Some of the remnants of the 17A are still there but its still classified as a 17 without the cobble stone slashing on the Reverse

I'm still looking for the previous die state used, I don't have any 17 series..

I think we are on the same page here...its just a matter of where on the accepted page.

the Die cracks purely show the die progression stages, they are a fingerprint, EXACT in there location of 17B without the FULL dentile impressions..somethng is still missing

I had argued the die states about a year ago, but was so very new to coins, and I had no coin of this 17 series to look at, that I was forced to take their word for it that the 17 came before the 17A.... I questioned if these were possibly even a different die pair..... Again, the die state is correct because the 17A shows a great loss of detail in the hair, the detail of the design is sharper on the 17 than on the 17A, and some nonsense about a die chip.

Well, from online pictures (and I know this is not a good thing for me), I see no loss hair detail on the 17A, and the sharpness of the design and the die chip thing are irrelevant to competent appraisal of die state in this case.




I like all of your pictures Bryan, this one is either important, or totally irrelevant, as that mark on the 7 is in the bottom of a device and has nothing to do with clashing..... It might be interesting to know if the raised line is common to both 17 and 17A though.... The coin with the most prominent raised line is definitely the earlier die state..... I tried to get this through back then also, but was scoffed at because I was a total noob:

When determining die states, I think that most folks look for clues in the wrong places and find stuff that confuses them.... Field marks, design sharpness can come and go in a matter of minutes, but marks in the devices will only wear away slowly.

That little "7" in one of the letters (the "Y", I think) on your v-85 is such a thing.... whether it is a feature of the hub or die, I have not given any thought to, but it is one of the more important aspects of your coin (to me).... whatever other VAM that might share that obverse might have that little 7 in the Y, but maybe less pronounced if they are indeed later states of the same obverse.

I side with you.... something is fishy about these denticle impressions.

The die state thing (that is perceived and believed in without question), is the basis for not accepting any rational reason for the cause of these denticle impressions.

why are the die cracks more advanced on the O and L as they are that match the 17B? but yer the dentil classes are present on the 17B...HUMMM they are More advanced than the 17a......As die cracks are not listable they are a finger print....MY QUESTION IS.....HOW CAN the 17A show dentile clashes....and the 17B show dentile clashes......AND Bryons
Coin show it has the EXACT cracks bet lesser dentil impressions?perhaps more photo's....YET BOTH 17A and
17B HAVE THEM..?/ and remnents of them....

for those of you who lurk,,sometimes the fine details will determine what VAM it really is or such as this,, its in between something known attributed VAM....and an EDS or LDS within the die state.....