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Replies: 140 / Views: 49,944 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Well, in order to achieve the proper sharpness downsized (understanding the final image will be viewed on a monitor of whatever resolution either way), you have to either throw a *huge* number of megapixels at the problem, or you have to physically magnify with superior optics at a lesser resolution. I'm contemplating a full-frame camera as one of the possible tools for the solution - Sony has a seriously attractive 24.6MP option - but no tethered shooting option exists, and Live View for focus is a vital ingredient. I lean towards either a Canon 550D or maybe 7D (I really like the 7D's superior FPS for continuous shooting, but I don't know if I'll use it enough) because of the software support. I need the size vs. original of the 800px image you provided for my asking, and I need it at the apparent sharpness of your original downsized image. That is what it will take to carry the research of Morgan dollar varieties into the realm I wish to take it. The mic stands you have been posting here are scrumptious. If you can build me one which will utilize the Rodenstock 75 as easily as a Canon 100mm Macro for Morgan photography, I will buy it when the money becomes available in September. I need to consider the "production line" aspects of my ebay business for which the Canon lens seems much more suitable than the Rodenstock, unless you can reassure me of the relative ease of resetting between a 15mm coin and a 40mm coin when I have to write 15 auctions for coins of different sizes in a short period of time. Autofocus seems like such a wonderful advantage in that instance. 
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
SuperDave...Here's what I get with my MZ7: 
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
You have a Monozoom? Wonderful! That was on my list of possibilities. That might be within an image stack of getting where I want to go. Is that the entire field of view?
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
SuperDave...no, I cropped it a little to get it to a squarish aspect ratio. This is with a 2x objective and 3x multiplier, but not at full mag, only around 5x. It's blurrier in final image than on the live view screen so I think I have a bit too much camera shake for best sharpness at this magnification. I'll need to work on that. I think I can actually get a crisper image by going to 1.5x multiplier and then cropping more but it was too late last night to try lots of options...
By the way, I have several extra MZ7's that I've picked up over time, so if you have interest going that way let me know.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: By the way, I have several extra MZ7's that I've picked up over time, so if you have interest going that way let me know. I may just. This looks very promising, if I'm reading the image correctly. I've already accepted that my images will need to be stacked, and I'm thinking that my work at this magnification will be done in monochrome where color isn't important. Seems like that might increase the apparent sharpness, if only by way of lowering the viewer's investment in interpreting what they're seeing. There's a lot of stuff clamoring for attention in the specific budget I'll have, though.  I'm going to need to build a pretty burly computer to handle stacking, stitching and editing of huge files. I'll be needing both macro- and micro-equipment done from scratch, and I have to figure out how to squeeze both that lovely Rodenstock and a "regular" macro lens into the budget so I can do "action" macro outdoors as well as fixed-subject indoors. That Monozoom might_just be the solution, though, and the price would break loose the cost of a decent Greenough zoom instrument for more general work. I'm quite enamored of Brunel scopes in their price range; I know a few who use them to great effect and there are aspects of research where the slight side-view of a Greenough design is actually an advantage.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
is that english you guys are speaking in? I ask because I have no idea what either of you are saying
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
We're speaking Optical. It's a dialect of English.  I decided recently that I want to create a picture of a Morgan dollar that's the size of your roof, with enough detail that you could still use a magnifying glass on the picture. Strangely enough, that's the point where a member registered and started posting who has been researching the best way to do just that.
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
Yeah, my goal is to be able to take a single photo of a Lincoln Cent that I can zoom in on die markers and have resolution and clarity good enough to easily document and attribute a variety. It's not an easy goal to accomplish! So SuperDave, have you considered using the 100mm lens as a relay lens for an infinity-corrected objective? That would allow you to keep the camera and lens mounted for 1:2...1:1, but then add appropriate objectives for 2:1, 5:1, 10:1, etc.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote: So SuperDave, have you considered using the 100mm lens as a relay lens for an infinity-corrected objective? That would allow you to keep the camera and lens mounted for 1:2...1:1, but then add appropriate objectives for 2:1, 5:1, 10:1, etc.
It's one of the ideas I'm considering - probably the method I know the least about. I wonder if such a solution might limit ultimate resolution more than a single lens/bellows setup, or a bespoke set like an MZ7 or trinocular?
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
SuperDave...Here's a 800x800 1:1 crop of image taken with Nikon 5X CF Plan objective mounted on a 150mm EL-Nikkor on the bellows. Looks like this method has a lot of promise. I'm going to try a 20X objective next, once I can figure out how to mount it. 
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms 06/10/2011 02:54 am
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Are you able to Live View remotely to fine-tune focus, or is this all in the viewfinder?
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
This was using Live View on the monitor. The combo is a joy to use as well! The 5X was the only infinity-corrected objective I had around, so could not try a higher magnification, but that is pretty good clarity for 100%. I'm very interested in this now as it gave a better image than the MZ7. A big disadvantage is that it had far less working distance than the MZ7 so lighting is more difficult, but for variety documentation you generally want a very low angle illumination anyway to emphasize surface details.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
I almost feel "wrong" about this - you're doing the precise research leading to the exact knowledge I need, at just the right moment in time.  One of the LED rings I'm going to build will have the LED's pointing inward towards center, rather than down, in as thin a configuration as possible. Minute variances in the vertical positioning ought to make dramatic changes in the appearance of the image. What sort of exposure times are you needing?
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
4038 Posts |
SuperDave...No worries, this is fun, and I had wanted to try the 5X lens out for quite a while now. I was also curious also how an enlarging lens would work as a tube lens for infinity-corrected objective, and found that it worked beautifully! The i-objectives are designed for nominally 200mm tube lenses, so I first tried my 200mm AI Micro-Nikkor, but for some reason it worked very poorly. It had poor contrast wide open, and that area of poor contrast got smaller as I stopped it down but did not go away until it started to vignette. The 150mm enlarging lens also had poor contrast wide open, but worked well stopped down by one stop to f/8 with no vignetting. I think I'm only getting effectively 3.75x with the combo though. The fiber optic ring light I am starting to use looks similar to the LED light you describe. I initially built an LED light like this using white LEDs in the end of a lens cap, much smaller than the fiber light and more suitable for higher magnification. It did not work well, I had the angles wrong, and around that time my work got hectic and I dropped the project. Perhaps I might pick that up again. Here's a photo of the fiber light I'm using:  On the 5X objective setup, my exposure time was 1/80sec. Nice thing about this type of setup is there is less loss of light at same magnification than with a standard objective and bellows.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
1/80? Oh, this is promising.
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Replies: 140 / Views: 49,944 |