| Author |
 Replies: 47 / Views: 5,369 |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
Realeswatcher, you are correct, I was thinking 1777, not 1776. Thank you for pointing out my error.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I have the 1787 and 1825 on loan, to check them out before I purchase
them. If it is ok to post some pictures in the thread .. or start another thread ... I could take some pictures in the morning, if some of you would liek to give your opinions?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
If you put them here we will be notified when they post.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
I am hoping it is ok with the original member for this post, to add some pics of coins I am interested in buying. So far this thread looks like it has some very good information on 8R Spanish coins. I hope my pictures are good enough to get some good opinions. I see 8r coins every once in a while and would like to get enough knowledge to know what I am buying. 1787    1825    |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Even I will admit Bob after XRF analyzing over 300 CC8R's for OUR book I would have a tough time suggesting a Class 3 or Modern Fake of a debased silver alloy type. I say this because of all the modern Chinese fakes I have examined particularly for the cast die transfer types from China for all countries I have never seen a debased silver alloy type like a Class 2 CC8R - I have seen bronze with silver, Iron/Nickel, german silver types, etc... I know I have posted some of my findings here of these Chinese die cast transfer alloys ... in my mind something that is debased silver is primarily a Class 2 piece for these CC8R China types ... I just don't see modern types with any significant level of silver say over 10% silver ...
Anything is possible but a 20thC debased silver or high silver type is a rarity in my opinion - very unusual - not requiring a class or sub-class type onto itself ... just my opinion ...
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Both of those are genuine - the 1787 may have been cleaned but both are OK.
The edge picture of the 1787 shows one of two edge die laps (very short) out of line - if that same feature or a matching length feature appears exactly opposite that edge picture that you have NO WORRIES.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Thank you swamperbob.
I do see a line opposite the die lap you mention.
What do you think a fair price would be to offer on buying these coins? I am thinking $25.00
Is one a better coin over the other?
I am just wanting some coins like this for my collection, not to flip.
|
|
Valued Member
 United States
462 Posts |
Edited by plonker
02/13/2013 7:15 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Quote:
$25 wold be a great bargain I'd think. You could be right .. I guess I should be willing to go a little higher .. checking out your link and ebay .. I see they are selling from $60 to $100 plus. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I would offer $65 on the 1787 and $45 on the 1825 and if they were on ebay I would also figure I would loose at those prices but they are fair. I pay $35 up for counterfeit portraits run of the mill. So $25 may be an insulting offer to the dealer unless he is buying at melt and is basically taking advantage of the people he buys from. A fair price is fair for BOTH parties. Edited by swamperbob
02/13/2013 10:29 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Thanks again Swamperbob
We had not talked prices, so I was wanting to know what I would expect to pay and have a fair deal. I will use your suggestion as a possible offer.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
"What do you think a fair price would be to offer on buying these coins? I am thinking $25.00." Melt for an 8R (and for the 1787?!) is fair? Frankly, either you have zero concept of pricing on these (and thus, logically, you can't legitimately have a notion of what "fair" is)... OR, you DO have some concept of prices and you know better... The 1825 is in less-than-average grade wear-wise, and has a small attempted piercing (12 o'clock both sides)... Your average 1825-JL is VF30ish with maybe a few ticks or some light hairlines can be had in the $60 range. This piece should be commensurately less - probably a $40-45 piece. Now, the 1787... Unless the dealer is a complete rube (is there an acknowledged spelling for "rube"?), he would be well within his rights to tell you to go ____ yourself if you offered $25 on that piece (of course, whatever he paid is not a concern to us, save for moral judgment). Strong XF detail. Definitely wiping hairlines there, but hard to tell how bad from the overexposed pic. Also, some remaining peripheral luster present. If not hideously hairlined/brushed in hand, you're easily in the $125-150 range on ebay or from any halfway-knowledgeable dealer. Even for the local yokel seller, this is about as common and popular a "foreign" coin series as you can get, not some obscure series from Whocaresistan where they might see two in their life. Bob, you're obviously very much an active participant in the 8R market (though perhaps looking at a different end of it than most people). What are you basing that $65 price on? .... and "If they were on ebay I would also figure I would (lose) at those prices"? I misread that at first... but you mean if you bid $65 for that piece on ebay, you would lose the auction (by a LOT), yes? PS - Plonker, on the other end of the spectrum... Keep in mind, MA-Shops is generally reflecting strong "dealer-retail" pricing... Those are all professionals and they are fully aware of what can be squeezed out of a piece. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
realeswatcher The $65 price was a bottom fishing price HOPING for a Class 2 or 3 counterfeit (which requires an in person check anyway). I do not expect to win but that is a dealer wholesale price that I am familiar with for originals that are cleaned. I would not risk bidding higher than that without seeing the coin in hand. I rarely win originals on ebay but I bid quite often at wholesale. I really do not want originals in any event but hate to see coins sell for less than dealer wholesale. They are comp bids. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
So you're then mainly referring to your own pricing strategy in regards to the CCs...
"Originals that are cleaned", though... "Cleaned original" could mean a polished-to-death chopped-up VG-F Washington Mint piece... OR can be a piece like this with XF+ detail but some wipemarks. HUGE difference! The amount of detail left on the 1787 pictured brings a premium.
Regarding just throwing up a just-in-case lowballs on the Bay... rarely these days do (genuine not CC!) Charles III Mex 8R (or even Charles IIII), properly titled and categorized, ending in prime time, fail to fetch the expected price level.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I guess what I am really saying is that in NC the price is lower. Remember in this area these coins usually go begging for buyers and I can still get bargains. I can get originals near XF well under $100 by looking. I do not want to get stuck with a higher priced original because that would mean I would have to re-sell on ebay and eat their fees. Any originals I get I tend to re-sell into the local market or better yet trade for counterfeits. Cleaned coins here is also a near death sentence. I have seen the Washington Mint types sold for melt. The obverse of the 1787 coin looks more harshly cleaned to me than to you - not as bad as the real clunkers but far from original surfaces. I think wiping is understated. But this is why collecting is so subjective and ultimately based on the collector's opinion. |
| |
Replies: 47 / Views: 5,369 |
First Page
Previous Page
Posted 02/13/2013 12:36 am
