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 Replies: 83 / Views: 8,480 |
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Valued Member
Canada
234 Posts |
I understand that the NC in NCLT stands for non-circulating and therefore it makes sense that it would not be accepted as a form of payment in day-to-day transactions. However since the LT part stands for legal tender and the definition of that is "coins or banknotes that must be accepted if offered in payment of a debt". Therefore I would think that these coins should have to have some kind of guarantee against their face value. In comparison to other coin and bill related items such as the novelty 1 million dollar bills that are sold they clearly have printed on them "Not Legal Tender" and I would have no expectation that the face value on this type of item would have any meaning. Under the FAQ section of the RCM website they state "All coins manufactured by the Mint are legal tender" which to me sounds like there is no difference between circulating coins and NCLT with respect to the "legal tender" aspect. If these NCLT coins really have no legal tender backing to them the RCM should not legally be allowed to advertise them as such and should have to market them as NCNLT (Non-Circulating Non Legal Tender) coins. In my opinion anyways. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I'm highly doubtful that if you brought a $5 sml to a bank, they would give you more than face value. I believe these coins are treated the same way as silver dollars that get turned it at the bank. 1 silver dollar gets you $1, not the silver value.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
As soon as I get a chance, I'll see what happens when I try to deposit a $20 for $20 into my bank account.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
SolarPenny,
Any coin or bill can be refused regardless if it is legal tender or not. An example would be a gas station that has a sign that says "we do not accept bills higher than $50". Now, with that being said, if you filled your tank without seeing the sign, and attempted to pay with the only bill you had, a $50, what could they really do? It's not as if they're going to call the cops on you. If they did, the cop would probably just ask them to accept it since you haven't committed any crime.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
It would be foolish to try to buy a pack of gum with a $5 sml. It would be equally as foolish not to accept a sml as $5.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
If you want to get rid of some of your $x for $x coins, you could always leave 1 as a tip next time you go out to a restaurant. The waitress might scratch her head trying to figure out what it was but oh well.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
redzapsid, the Royal bank is probably the best place to the to cash these in.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
.....coins or banknotes that must be accepted if offered in payment of a debt"
That's what changed in the UK, "legal tender" offered as transactions including payment for goods or services, etc was amended to be legally applicable solely aa payment to the courts. It appears the RM then went on to use this amendment in support of discontinuing their informal arrangement for banks to redeem NCLT. From England's Royal Mint: "Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded. In practice this means that although the silver UK coins we produce in denominations of £5, £20, £50 and £100 are approved as legal tender, they have been designed as limited edition collectables or gifts and will not be entering general circulation. As such, UK shops and banks will not accept them." http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/po...r-guidelines****** Seems to me this is a first step towards a cashless society..... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Quote:The biggest difference between The Royal Mint and RCM is they have their spokesperson and their website clearly announcing their position on these coins, the ads on the 20 for 20 to most buyers is clear the RCM is guaranteeing face value, it doesn't say thirty day manufacturing defects only sounds just like Sears or Eatons slogan for years before they almost went bankrupt, Yes yes, most of us if not all know what the RCMs stance is on their "coins" at the moment. The Royal Mint had the same policies but now has changed them. This what some of us are trying to say. They "could" change their polices, I am not saying they are going to, who knows. But if one major Mint starts doing this others "could" follow. "The 'face value' and 'legal tender' coins that you can't cash in: Has Royal Mint been mis-leading special coin buyers?" Quote:Royal Mint tells banks to stop cashing in special 'face value' coins Website now clarifies narrow definition of 'legal tender' Readers hit out, claiming they feel duped by commemorative coins Royal Mint says those wanting to sell coins must go to collectors £100 silver coin is made with roughly £19 worth of precious metal http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-buyers.html |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Northerncoins, you've expressed your thoughts very well. That's exactly my point too. Just because something is the way it is now, don't assume it won't change in the future! Many XforX collectors bought them as collector coin and for the right reasons, but for others who might be saving towards their children's education or another longterm reason, nowhere has RCM ever given the guarantee they're redeemable at face value forever. Furthermore it really ticks me off that RCM uses marketing tactics such as they do - not unethical but it's easy for new collectors to jump to incorrect conclusions....and they do a very poor job of offering any educational component. Instead the focus is on buy, buy, buy! For example they advertise a $20 for $20 is 99.9999% silver which may lead some people to conclude the coin is made from $20 worth of silver. Instead, after one does the math, they'd discover it contains only 1/4oz worth of silver, less than $5 worth at today's spot price. A very poor option in terms of a silver investment as well, at a price of x4. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Not sure how or care how The Royal Mint marketed these coins but we are sure how the RCM is currently marketing these coins, if they followed the British example, it's false and misleading advertisement or in the worst case fraud. The RCM could follow suit and announce from this date on new version will be useless trinkets but they will destroy their NCLT business, these coins must attract enough new customers to the RCM or they would have cancelled them already. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
......but they will destroy their NCLT business....
How so? Adding: From a business perspective, we don't have any information to consider since RCMs financial statements do not specially reveal the volume of XforX it redeems and no mention of counterfeiting ever. But RCMs redemption of $5 worth of silver at a cost of $20, adding in melt and production costs in order to remint the bullion into some current edition of NCLT certainly erases any profit it originally incurred on the sale of that $20. So it's possible it will come a time when XforX's become unprofitable and we likely will not know if or when it's "destroying their business". But it's quite possible that time already occurred in the UK and that's partly the reason the legislation to define "legal tender" was amended. Edited by wildflowerAB
04/07/2016 2:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
If you offer a product guarantee and about face, why would you trust the company with future purchases, they will become no better than a Franklin mint. The Perth Mint restruck some bullion coins and are still suffering from that decision. These 20 for 20 never made any profit for the RCM, with handling shipping and with royalty on the superman series, they must lose a wack on each coin but it must do a service of bringing new collectors. The Royal Mint could have sold these coins at the get go without any assurance unlike the RCMEdited by john100
04/07/2016 2:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
"In this world nothing can be said to be certain (guaranteed), except death and taxes."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
Quote:If you offer a product guarantee and about face, why would you trust the company with future purchases, they will become no better than a Franklin Mint. The Perth Mint restruck some bullion coins and are still suffering from that decision. Hmmm they seem to be doing just fine, short term they may have been suffering some but not now its seems. I don't think this will hurt the RM "much" either. People get all exited about new releases etc and these indiscretions from mints seem to fade away like the melting snow in the spring time. |
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Replies: 83 / Views: 8,480 |
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Posted 04/07/2016 12:05 pm
