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is my coin fake or not ?  
 

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New Member

France
11 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  2:43 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tawann to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello to the community,

i have a question please

I own several American gold eagle coins of one ounce.

On internet I can see the total weight is 33.93 Gr but when I check with my scale, I find a weight of 34,12 Gr

I brought them to check at a local jewelry shop to be tested, and it's gold (test with stone+ acid)

However they found a weight of 34,12gr too and I m still scare they are fake

I bought them from a reliable shop, with an invoice
They are 1987 edition (with roman numbers)

Could it be possible that the difference of weight to be normal ?

Thanks for your help,

and sorry for my language, I m not an English native speaker :)
New Member
France
11 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tawann to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some pictures could help







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United States
58002 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the Community!

Your post was moved to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.
Pillar of the Community
United States
908 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Check 999fine's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 999fine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lettering and details seem too "fat" to be good.
Still trying to complete my Dansco 7000.
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United States
26694 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Much larger pics would be needed for any useful input here.



to the CCF!
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United States
6115 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  6:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mark1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you click on the pictures they get bigger. Your coin has too many problems with it. I,m not an expert but I'd say fake.
My biggest fear is that when I die my wife will sell all my coins for what I told her I paid for them.

Working on Whitman Large Cent date set album 1793-1857 (57 holes filled of 64 total) now come the "toughies" - yikes!
Valued Member
United States
465 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Check BadDog's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... Your coin has too many problems with it. ...


What problems do you see?


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United States
7572 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  9:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tawann, welcome to CCF and your English is fine. Certainly better than my French!

Interestingly, I can't find a specific legal tolerance for the Eagles, but rather just the comment that all gold coins must not be underweight (that is, *below* 33.931 g). I note that the stated allowable tolerance for our cents is 0.1 g and nickels is about 0.2 g. Based on those numbers, your coins seem to be pretty reasonable as to their weights.

I honestly don't know enough about the Eagles so can't comment one way or another as to their being fake or real. My only point is that at least in a first pass, the weights seem ok to me. Here are the relevant US legal codes if you'd like to do the research yourself.

31 U.S. Code § 5113 - Tolerances and testing of coins

31 U.S. Code § 5112 - Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
"It certainly strikes the beholder with astonishment, to perceive what vast difficulties can be overcome by the pigmy arms of little mortal man, aided by science and directed by superior skill." --Henry Tudor (the lawyer not the king)
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United States
4198 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2018  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with Spence. On bullion, the mint is going to err on the side of caution to avoid producing underweight coins, so some may be slightly over the official weight.
One other thing- I'm not sure if you've already noticed this, but the first coin is 1986, while the second is 1987.
ANA member no. 3183942 since 2010.
New Member
France
11 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  01:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tawann to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello everybody

Thanks for the replies, unfortunately, they are not reassuring :)

A friend of mine advise me to scratch one of them to be definitly sure they don't have a tungsten core. This is an option I will consider today.

@badogs, can you tell me which problems do you see from the pictures please ?

@999fine I took pictures in HD mode with artificial light, and not exactly on the top to get more light on the coin (to see details). It gaves a small "shadow" effect. (i might try to persuade myself :D )

@spence : Thanks, for the information. You're the second person to say that this 1% difference of weight could be normal.

We were using two scales

Mine : it shows a weight of 34,18gr (but it's cheap Chinese scale)
The scale from the shop show a weight of 34,12gr witch is more acceptable

i think I will pick the scratch coin option to be sure.
Valued Member
United States
465 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  05:13 am  Show Profile   Check BadDog's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tawann,

I don't see any problems with coins. That is why I asked Mark1959 what issues he sees with the coins.

I agree with Spence and think that the weight variance is probably within US Mint tolerances, but I too couldn't find a reference to what those tolerances are exactly.

I would NOT scratch the coins.

I would get a set of calipers and verify the coins diameters.

Without examining the coins in-hand, my opinion is that they are genuine.
New Member
France
11 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  06:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tawann to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi everybody,

i was advised to make a "ping test" before doing any scratch.

Here it is https://vocaroo.com/i/s0ALin1qY3jr

I was also told by a gold seller that gold eagle can have different weight.

I copy / paste his answer for those who are interested.


Dear tawann,

The US Mint is known for not-so-exact measures and then your scale might be
slightly off-balance.

When you weigh the coin you need to make sure that you don’t breath around the scale and there is no window open, air vent etc. Even breathing in and out next to the scale will result in different measures.

You also need to do 5-8 weigh attempts, balancing the scale from time to time and then average out the result.

US Eagles are much harder to counterfeit than other coins, but they are out there…
you can also do a ping test:
enBD3GsIaJU

*** Edited by Staff to add YouTube tags. [youtube][/youtube] Please use them in the future. We prefer embedded video. ***

Any counterfeit alloy will not result the pure „ping“ than the US Eagle.

Am sure it will be fine.

If you are happy to pay the shipping back and forth, we can test the coin free of charge.
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Canada
1930 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  06:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are ways of testing silver and gold purity without doing a scratch test. One of my LCS has such a device. I think that it can tell if there is a tungsten core. However, it only works for flat items.
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United States
7572 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  06:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The scratch test would be my absolute last resort! How about specific gravity?
"It certainly strikes the beholder with astonishment, to perceive what vast difficulties can be overcome by the pigmy arms of little mortal man, aided by science and directed by superior skill." --Henry Tudor (the lawyer not the king)
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United States
4140 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  06:55 am  Show Profile   Check Foxwoods Man's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert in AGE's but, using the pics provided, they look fine to me.
New Member
France
11 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2018  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tawann to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello again.

Since I wanted to be sure about my gold dealer and the coins he sells, I decided to split one of the coin in half and see if it was not filled with tungsten or anything else. It hurts me to damage a nice looking coin...

But all is good !

It's a bit extreme solution but I feel more confortable now and I still can enjoy my other coins without fear them to be fake.

Also this coin still can be sold for its weight value...

@badogs and @spence were right.


What do I learn from my experience ?

1- to pay extra extra carefull if I buy again with new gold dealer
2- American gold Eagles could have significant difference with the displayed weight and I m very newbie about US coins...

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