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1951 1 Cent Doubled Die Obverse

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2019  6:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Im pretty sure I just found a 1951 doubled die obverse and thought I would share it with you guys, and get your opinions.




Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2019  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some close ups of some of the places that are doubled




Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
United States
3619 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2019  11:44 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely hard to tell due to condition, but the notching makes me think doubled die.
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Canada
9953 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2019  6:00 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a known DDO for the 1951 1-cent obverse. See the 70th edition of the Charlton Catalogue, the one with the small cent variety section.

I do believe this is the DDO variety. Quite scarce, I have been hunting for one in AU grade or better for quite some time, with no success yet.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2020  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to look!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2020  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does this 1 in the date look normal to you guys? At first the 5 I just assumed was Machine Doubling but look at the bottom of the 1...

This is the reverse of the same coin..






Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
United States
7540 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2020  11:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe it just my eyes, but I think your arrows should be on the west side of the five (straight stalk). The five and the one look to me to be moving in the same direction corresponding to the doubling seen under both digits.
ça va bien aller

Pillar of the Community
United States
7540 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2020  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP-Ottawa, thank you for mentioning the 70th ed. Charlton Catalogue... I have older and newer, but not the 70th edition. I have seen your reference of it before and decided I should have it in my library. It took me a bit to find it, but I did and have already ordered it. Thanks again!
ça va bien aller

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Canada
9953 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Time for JohnWayne007 to update this thread. We now know there are two DDO variants for 1951:

1. the one listed in the 70th Edition Charlton Catalogue (variety section)
2. the one shown in this thread

From about a year of hunting, #1 seems much more scarce than #2.

PS - I updated the title to this thread. The question of whether this is real or not, is moot.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
9953 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
And, while rummaging through my error inventory, look what I found!

The DDO with the split serifs on the E of DEI

Oh, but something is missing on this coin.


And, the dovetailed rims, to keep the error folks happy.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1588 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
found 1 among 9---Yes?



Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Canada
9953 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fourmack - yes, and yours is a nice grade.

It is fairly common. I suspect that punch was used to sink a few working dies. I have found a couple nice ones in AU with lustre, and am still hunting for a nice mint state version.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1588 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
fourmack - yes, and yours is a nice grade.


Thanks
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
United States
927 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Phil310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I looked through a roll of circulated 1951's and found three with notching. It's a neat looking coin!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1076 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2021  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Time for JohnWayne007 to update this thread. We now know there are two DDO variants for 1951:

1. the one listed in the 70th Edition Charlton Catalogue (variety section)
2. the one shown in this thread

From about a year of hunting, #1 seems much more scarce than #2.


I Agree, I think it is time I update this thread a bit.

I have reason to believe that there are actually 3 variants of DDO for 1951. The main two have been confirmed, I also agree that #1 is elusive and Scarce, #2 being less scarce but still fairly hard to find.

#1 - The example shown in the 70th Edition Charlton, shows doubling in "GRATIA", "REX" and "HP" going in a Clockwise Direction.

#2 - The example this post was originally about, shows doubling in "DEI" and "GRATIA" going in a Counter-Clockwise Direction.

#3 - This is almost identical to #2, but the doubling is restricted to "DEI" only, and the spread that can be found on the bottom right tip of the "E" is smaller and not as spread apart going in a Counter-Clockwise Direction. I have NOT fully confirmed this yet due to the examples I had were pretty circulated, the only thing I have fully confirmed for #3 is the smaller spread on the "E" not being as severe as the spread on #2.


The best way to tell if you have #2 or #3 if I am correct, is to check "GRATIA", specifically the bottom left-hand side of the "R" and the following "A" for splits like shown in the second photo below. If no splits are present or it shows no signs of doubling in "GRATIA" then you have #3.


Here is one of the lesser grade examples I have of #2, but with a twist. The letters "TIA" in "GRATIA" look like they are on fire.






So long story short, make sure to check "GRATIA" after you are done checking "DEI" when looking for the DDO varieties on the 1951 small cent. I will update this thread with better, full photos in the next day or so. However, I will unfortunately not be able to include photos for the DDO shown in the 70th Edition Charlton since I do not own an example to photograph.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
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Canada
9953 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2021  11:49 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The letters "TIA" in "GRATIA" look like they are on fire.


That is what Hans Zoell called "mortar set", and you can easily find them on 1c coins from 1942 through to 1952. That is deterioration of the die, whereby the chromium plating is chipping off the fields next to the incuse devices on the dies. Sometimes it can be quite extreme...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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