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1931 P Lincoln Cent With Shadow, What Causes This?

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Author Replies: 23 / Views: 491Next Topic
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New Member
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 Posted 05/23/2020  01:49 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have been collecting cents for a long while now and sell regularly on eBay. Through the years I always kept the strange looking ones. Most are probably PMD, many are Lamination. Now I have tubes of these laying around. I hope that someone can educate me on a few oddities.

Edited by SomeGoodCents
05/23/2020 01:50 am
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 Posted 05/23/2020  05:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please be more specific. Indirect die transfer on the reverse?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It kinda looks like the word LIBERTY is doubled, but up and to the left at an angle.


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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a possible double strike die rotation. Pretty cool coin. Or possibly some severe Machine Doubling.
Edited by fenton
05/23/2020 09:23 am
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 Posted 05/23/2020  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a TY under LIBERTY as well. We need Mike on this.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 05/23/2020  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Calling Dr. coop!



to the CCF!
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 Posted 05/23/2020  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 05/23/2020  11:32 am  Show Profile   Check John K's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
triple strike? But why not more on the reverse?
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 Posted 05/23/2020  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If this coin was struck multiple times, there would be (1) multiple lettering in the motto and date, with the same degree of rotation, and (2) doubling on the reverse, with the same degree of rotation. Neither is apparent on this coin.

The date appears to be wrong for a 1931 on your coin. Your "3" appears to be too low relative to the line connecting the top of the first "1" and the top of the "9" and the shape of the opening of the "9" appears to be incorrect.

I suspect either a faked error, using a weak transfer die second strike, or an entirely counterfeited coin. A weak transfer die strike would explain the mushy, flattened reverse.

EDIT: @John K, you beat me to it, and posted while I was sipping coffee and working on my post. We definitely see the same problem with this critter!
Edited by fortcollins
05/23/2020 11:55 am
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 Posted 05/23/2020  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think another possibility would be a very very late stage rotated die cap strike through. Definitely need mike to confirm anything though
Edited by Adam_E
05/23/2020 12:23 pm
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 Posted 05/23/2020  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm a returning member from several years ago. I can remember a member named Coop that used to give me great coin evaluations. I'm not sure if I posted this oddball back then but it really caught my eye when I plucked it out of a 5,000 ct. bag some time ago. I have 8-9 rolls (tubes) of odd looking cents I pulled from bags over the years, many Lamination examples. Most of these bags came from Provident Metals, they used to sell some outstanding bags of Wheat Cents.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This could be a counterfeit involving the use of a fake obverse die to generate the second and third strikes. If so, it would be very similar to the many 1964 and 1964-D cents with fake one-sided double and triple strikes. However, there are other possibilities. If the extra images show relief, this might be a one-sided rotational triple strike. Such an error would occur if the obverse die were to rotate between each strike while the coin remained firmly seated on the anvil die. A few such errors are known among domestic business strikes (and more among proofs). If the extra images are simply shadows, this could instead be an example of surface film transfer. Such errors occur when a die strikes a dirty planchet strike, with movement between strikes. The dirty design is transferred back to the die face and then transferred to the next planchet. Such errors can also occur if a dirty die strikes a coin twice, with movement of the coin between strikes. I know of two examples among domestic dimes. If you would be willing, I would like to examine this coin up close and possibly write it up for my Coin World column.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SomeGoodCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mike it would be an honor to have you take a closer look, Sir. I'm sure you understand I'm a bit hesitant to let this out of my hands. How can we do this in a secure fashion?
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 Posted 05/23/2020  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried to send you an e-mail through Coin Community but was informed that you haven't activated this capability.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add josephm99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh he doesn't have 50 posts yet.
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 Posted 05/23/2020  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you want to contact me directly, you can do so through error-ref.com. Please be aware that the coin's advanced state of wear may preclude a definitive diagnosis.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
05/23/2020 3:10 pm
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