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5c - 1965 Different Types Of "5"

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 Posted 06/06/2020  3:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
There are two types of 5 for 1965. Type 1 has a much finer font than type 2. Type 1 without the double 5 is also the hardest to find!

TYPE 1



TYPE 2



For type 1, there is a double 5 variety. This variety deteriorates to have a more bold appearance like type 2 but it is distinguished by a smaller spacing between the tail and the beginning of the curvature of the 5.

TYPE 1 Double 5


TYPE 1 Double 5 Deteriotated
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 Posted 06/06/2020  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Check JohnWayne007's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This has been talked about extensively back in 2019

http://goccf.com/t/360505
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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Canada
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 Posted 06/06/2020  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you JohnWayne007 for the link.

The conclusion from others were an illusion of different "5"s but hope these new images will prove that you were right all along!
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 Posted 06/06/2020  8:32 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is an easy enough date to get lots in mint state condition - I'd like to see overlays of the two fives, but using mint state coins. That would help eliminate if what we are seeing is Die Deterioration or not.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/06/2020  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Check JohnWayne007's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is an easy enough date to get lots in mint state condition - I'd like to see overlays of the two fives, but using mint state coins. That would help eliminate if what we are seeing is Die Deterioration or not.



I have no doubt its a DDR, once I seen the doubled/split stems of the leaves and the splits in "CENTS" I called it a day, however I do have a couple on hand in MS once I get on my computer ill post some.
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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 Posted 06/06/2020  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Check JohnWayne007's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alright, while I'm working on the overlays I want to show 2 different coins, same year (1965) one is a known DDR (Extra Claw) and the other is the one in question.


First 3 images are the extra claw, sorry if my photos are not clear enough, I have been having issues with my microscope but they should suffice.

This image is the Left Leaf, if you look at the stem you can somewhat see a complete split.


In this photo is a close up of the Stem, completely split in 2.


These two are of the bottom portion of the "C" and "E" in "CENTS" once again, completely split.



Now here is the coin in question with the doubled "5", same sequence, same areas, i'll let you guys be the judge.







Again, these photos are just to show the similarities of a known DDR compared to the coin in question, regardless of the "5" in the date.
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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 Posted 06/07/2020  12:33 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not questioning the DDR, but two different 5s suggest a second matrix or master punch... I'd like to see overlays of the 5s with mint state coins.
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/07/2020  12:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These are the closes to mint state I have. Type 1 is on the left, Type 2 on the right (with and without grid).



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 Posted 06/07/2020  01:08 am  Show Profile   Check JohnWayne007's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am not questioning the DDR, but two different 5s suggest a second matrix or master punch... I'd like to see overlays of the 5s with mint state coins.


Completely understandable, I was directing it more towards other members who may get confused about the DDR and clarifying that it was, from my previous research there is two type of 5's like the OP says, but to add to the mix the " DDR + Doubled 5" is also most common on the "Type 1" which can make it even more confusing.

the whole DDR aspect aside, I've done every overlay and measurement possible with the examples I had and still came to the same conclusion, the 5's really are different, if its from deterioration or like you said a second matrix or master punch I have no idea.

I do have a couple BU rolls of 65's I still need to go through (for this exact reason) but have not got around to cracking them until now. If I manage to find both types in MS i'll do a good overlay.

From the looks of numidan's images hes came to the same conclusion I did regarding the 5's being different.
They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Valued Member
Canada
143 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2020  2:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the statistics and how to determine the type of 5.

For Type 1 variety without double 5 = 4%;
Type 1 with double 5 = 5% and with deteriorated double 5 = 7%
Type 2 = 84%

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Draw a line following the top of 5 towards the 9.
If this line is between the middle-bottom of the upper loop of the 9, it is Type 1 variety.
If the line is close to the top of the 9, it's the Type 2 variety.

Type 1


Type 2


Then look at the tip of the 5 as shown to determine if there is presence of doubling.

Type 1 with deteriorated double 5
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 Posted 06/07/2020  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rather than drawing lines and grids - which seems pointless to me, can you overlay the 5s? Or even better, overlay the entire date.?
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/07/2020  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hope with this you will be able to see the difference!


https://ibb.co/3vhvY7W
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 Posted 06/07/2020  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hope with this you will be able to see the difference!


Seriously? Try again without the silly GIF animation... how on earth can we examine anything in detail with your overlays, when the image shifts every few seconds?

Perhaps my request was not clear enough?


Quote:
Can you overlay the 5s?



Quote:
I'd like to see overlays of the two fives...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/07/2020  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seriously!

I give up.

I have provided enough high quality images, maybe you should contribute by creating the overlays yourself.

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 Posted 06/07/2020  6:32 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome to my world. That is how science works. You provide a hypothesis, and then subject your findings to peer review.

The onus is not on me to prove if there are in fact two difference 5s here. Assuming so means two master punches and dies. This is your hypothesis, and in support of trying to see what you were seeing, I was asking for something that would result as unequivocal evidence, that myself (and others here) could all agree to.


Quote:
I have provided enough high quality images, maybe you should contribute by creating the overlays yourself.


In my world, that is called "shifting the burden of proof"...
"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 06/07/2020  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Check JohnWayne007's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I respect the enthusiasm numidan, but I do agree with SPP-Ottawa.

Sometimes simple is better, and in this case a simple still image overlay of the full date or just the 5's of "type 1" and "type 2" would suffice, other members wont go on a wild goose chase to find something without any solid evidence on someone else's hunch, and SPP-Ottawa has directed you to the best way of showing exactly what everyone needs to see.

I know I have included GIF's in my past posts however I also included Still images to complement them and to further back my research. I also had plans to revisit my old post regarding the different 5's once my camera got here, right now I am only working with a cheap microscope that hides most of the details I would like others to see so don't worry, I haven't forgotten about it.



They say coin roll hunting is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.... I think it went something like that, I was too busy looking at coins.

This is my very first error coin I found that got me hooked.
- 1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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