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2005 D US Nickel DDO?

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Valued Member

Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/19/2023  10:44 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
It looks like a DDO.
I have not found any post on this site for a 2005 D Ocean in view DDO to compare with.

Up close showing doubling on letters "Libe"


Zoomed out


Comparing with an outline of coin without doubling.


Original without outline drawn
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United States
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 Posted 03/19/2023  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the lower part of the b looks like a doubled die, the rest I can't tell apart from Machine Doubling, let's see what others say
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United States
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 Posted 03/19/2023  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add surfacewave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me it looks like the devices are a bit narrower than the comparison coin. Hard to tell but I going to say die determination. Could7 post full obverse an reverse? I'm sure others with more experience will chime in with their opinions
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United States
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 Posted 03/20/2023  12:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Reno911 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you had the entire coin showing that would be appreciated, obverse and reverse.
I believe a few errors on the 2005 Ocean in view nickel. Now don't quote me but it was Jefferson farhead/top hair line area, filled E in Liberty ...on reverse it was the two lines "in view" and the next what exactly I forget, sorry
Edited by Reno911
03/20/2023 12:11 am
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 Posted 03/20/2023  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oddguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Liberty and mint mark are MD. There are a lot of these in the newer nickels.
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 Posted 03/20/2023  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note you are looking at the outside edges of the devices. The spread would be on the centers of the devices. Not on the outside edges. On the outside edges, Machine Doubling happens and die wear towards the rim directions.
https://www2.briansvarietycoins.com/listings/cat/8
The List form Brian's listings just show DDR's not any DDO's for that year.mint.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2023  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your reply is a bit confusing but I think I understand what you are saying Coop.

A few pictures to complement the explanation.

Steps that produces a double die (punch is creating working die)


Steps that produces a mechanical double (working die creating a coin in this case a die shift)


Comparing the two



Other picture at maximum zoom the digital microscope can go to.


Green shows where punch first hit.


and where it ended.




Edited by numidan
03/21/2023 09:25 am
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 Posted 03/21/2023  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think you have your green marks backwards. MD is when the coin is hit after the strike, when it is ejected out of the strike chamber.
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Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2023  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it was MD, true, the "working die" would hit where green is indicating on the second picture but it would not end where indicated on the first picture. It would hit again in the same area of the second picture. This makes thinner looking letters and weirdly shaped edges as shown below.




->Pictures taken from post http://goccf.com/t/397198&SearchTerms=nickel,ddo

I am indicating that it is a DD, so the "punch" affected the working die as shown by the green makings.

You must not overlook the edge geometry when analyzing DD. Sharp corner edge will create "shelf like" doubling as demonstrated in illustration above.
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 Posted 03/22/2023  7:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cujohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you think this is a DD and not MD, then send it in to be verified. Remember to come back here and show us that we were wrong.
Valued Member
Canada
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 Posted 03/22/2023  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alright, can someone tell me how the cavity of the working die will shift/jump and create a Mechanical Doubling that will fill up about 1/2 of the opening between the edges of the letter "b" as shown below?


Quote:
show us that we were wrong

Pretty hard to disagree with someone that did not really explain why my reasoning was flawed!

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Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2023  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Alright, can someone tell me how the cavity of the working die will shift/jump and create a Mechanical Doubling that will fill up about 1/2 of the opening between the edges of the letter "b" as shown below?


Can someone please confirm that it is not MD so we can go to the next question.


Q2) I am not an expert on US coins, so I am humble enough to say I might be wrong about DD. Therefore, if it is not MD and not DD, what type of doubling could it be?
Edited by numidan
03/23/2023 12:32 pm
Valued Member
Canada
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 Posted 03/24/2023  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After more than 50 views since the last message, no one is willing to confirm?

That is okay, I understand!

BTW tried to email support@briansvarietycoins.com found under contact and it bounces back as undelivered .
Does anyone know how to contact him so I can arrange to send the coin?

Back to business. I will use a scientific approach to try to determine the type of doubling.

Let's entertain that the doubling is due to Die Deterioration ( DDD).

It seems plausible. I have read somewhere that the working die is coated with chrome. I recalled the chromed wheels that I once owned. One wheel had an issue where the chrome was peeling.

Something like this:


source:https://www.finishing.com/341/45.shtml
Eurica we have found the type of doubling. The surface below the chrome coating is smooth and when it peels, the edge seems quite straight.

What a deception when one of the club members told me that the mint uses a different process. Instead of electroplating which leaves a thick coat of chrome, the mint used a vaporizing process which will leave a very thin coat of chrome, not enough to peel.

I've tried to find an example of DDD occurring on modern nickels on this site but did not find one.

What comes closes is this quarter:


source:http://goccf.com/t/437895&SearchTer...eterioration

Well, looking at this picture and the definition given by Coop in posts on this site, unless someone thinks differently, I can rule out DDD as the type of doubling.

P.S. Here is an interesting link discussing how to take pictures of fractured metal surfaces:
https://www.keyence.com/products/mi...-surface.jsp
Edited by numidan
03/24/2023 4:01 pm
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 Posted 03/24/2023  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
since other forms of doubling are far more common, any suspected doubled die coin has to clearly be a doubled die example, otherwise the odds say some other form of doubling was involved

your coin looks mostly like Machine Doubling to me, with only a small hint of other possible doubling
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 Posted 03/24/2023  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Curly82ABN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could you redo the side-by-side with another Denver vs using a Philly. Thanks
Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2023  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good catch Curly82ABN

Up here in Canada, we do not have to deal with circulated coins from different mints.

I've looked through my US change and was lucky to find one.

Is is not side by side, hope it is still okay. I have also included guidelines to make sure both images were aligned correctly.

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