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 Replies: 40 / Views: 2,193 |
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
It looks like a DDO. I have not found any post on this site for a 2005 D Ocean in view DDO to compare with. Up close showing doubling on letters "Libe"  Zoomed out  Comparing with an outline of coin without doubling.  Original without outline drawn  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2723 Posts |
the lower part of the b looks like a doubled die, the rest I can't tell apart from Machine Doubling, let's see what others say |
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
To me it looks like the devices are a bit narrower than the comparison coin. Hard to tell but I going to say die determination. Could7 post full obverse an reverse? I'm sure others with more experience will chime in with their opinions
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Valued Member
United States
316 Posts |
If you had the entire coin showing that would be appreciated, obverse and reverse.
I believe a few errors on the 2005 Ocean in view nickel. Now don't quote me but it was Jefferson farhead/top hair line area, filled E in Liberty ...on reverse it was the two lines "in view" and the next what exactly I forget, sorry
Edited by Reno911
03/20/2023 12:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1577 Posts |
Liberty and mint mark are MD. There are a lot of these in the newer nickels.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62062 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
Your reply is a bit confusing but I think I understand what you are saying Coop. A few pictures to complement the explanation. Steps that produces a double die (punch is creating working die)  Steps that produces a mechanical double (working die creating a coin in this case a die shift)  Comparing the two  Other picture at maximum zoom the digital microscope can go to.  Green shows where punch first hit.  and where it ended.  Edited by numidan
03/21/2023 09:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3388 Posts |
I think you have your green marks backwards. MD is when the coin is hit after the strike, when it is ejected out of the strike chamber.
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
If it was MD, true, the "working die" would hit where green is indicating on the second picture but it would not end where indicated on the first picture. It would hit again in the same area of the second picture. This makes thinner looking letters and weirdly shaped edges as shown below.   ->Pictures taken from post http://goccf.com/t/397198&SearchTerms=nickel,ddoI am indicating that it is a DD, so the "punch" affected the working die as shown by the green makings. You must not overlook the edge geometry when analyzing DD. Sharp corner edge will create "shelf like" doubling as demonstrated in illustration above. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3388 Posts |
If you think this is a DD and not MD, then send it in to be verified. Remember to come back here and show us that we were wrong.
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
Alright, can someone tell me how the cavity of the working die will shift/jump and create a Mechanical Doubling that will fill up about 1/2 of the opening between the edges of the letter "b" as shown below? Quote:
show us that we were wrong Pretty hard to disagree with someone that did not really explain why my reasoning was flawed!  |
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
Quote:Alright, can someone tell me how the cavity of the working die will shift/jump and create a Mechanical Doubling that will fill up about 1/2 of the opening between the edges of the letter "b" as shown below? Can someone please confirm that it is not MD so we can go to the next question. Q2) I am not an expert on US coins, so I am humble enough to say I might be wrong about DD. Therefore, if it is not MD and not DD, what type of doubling could it be?
Edited by numidan
03/23/2023 12:32 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
After more than 50 views since the last message, no one is willing to confirm? That is okay, I understand! BTW tried to email support@briansvarietycoins.com found under contact and it bounces back as undelivered  . Does anyone know how to contact him so I can arrange to send the coin? Back to business. I will use a scientific approach to try to determine the type of doubling. Let's entertain that the doubling is due to Die Deterioration ( DDD). It seems plausible. I have read somewhere that the working die is coated with chrome. I recalled the chromed wheels that I once owned. One wheel had an issue where the chrome was peeling. Something like this:  source: https://www.finishing.com/341/45.shtmlEurica  we have found the type of doubling. The surface below the chrome coating is smooth and when it peels, the edge seems quite straight. What a deception when one of the club members told me that the mint uses a different process. Instead of electroplating which leaves a thick coat of chrome, the mint used a vaporizing process which will leave a very thin coat of chrome, not enough to peel.  I've tried to find an example of DDD occurring on modern nickels on this site but did not find one. What comes closes is this quarter:  source: http://goccf.com/t/437895&SearchTer...eteriorationWell, looking at this picture and the definition given by Coop in posts on this site, unless someone thinks differently, I can rule out DDD as the type of doubling. P.S. Here is an interesting link discussing how to take pictures of fractured metal surfaces: https://www.keyence.com/products/mi...-surface.jspEdited by numidan
03/24/2023 4:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2723 Posts |
since other forms of doubling are far more common, any suspected doubled die coin has to clearly be a doubled die example, otherwise the odds say some other form of doubling was involved your coin looks mostly like Machine Doubling to me, with only a small hint of other possible doubling |
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Valued Member
United States
156 Posts |
Could you redo the side-by-side with another Denver vs using a Philly. Thanks
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Valued Member
Canada
197 Posts |
Good catch Curly82ABN Up here in Canada, we do not have to deal with circulated coins from different mints. I've looked through my US change and was lucky to find one. Is is not side by side, hope it is still okay. I have also included guidelines to make sure both images were aligned correctly.  |
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Replies: 40 / Views: 2,193 |
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Posted 03/19/2023 10:44 pm
