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Are Coin Shows Getting Crazy

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Bedrock of the Community
GR58's Avatar
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2012  11:26 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I went to a coin show this past weekend at Foley Alabama.

From what I saw and what I heard others saying, the prices some of the dealers were very much out of line.

This is the first show I went to, in a long time, where I had trouble finding many good deals.

The first table I walked up to had a Dansco Ike album.
When the dealer heard me mentioned in to the guy next to me, the dealer opened up the album to show me a worn Dansco with poor quality coins. Then he told me I could buy it for $510.

I thought I was shocked ... until I walked up to the very next table. The dealer at that table in a vest, bow tie and slicked back hair, had a 25th silver anniversary ASE slabbed MS/PR 70 set .. and was asking ... $10,000 for it.

I am not kidding at all ..

The $10,000 ASE set seemed to be the joke of the show and the dealer did not change his price, and seemed very serious about wanting to get that price.

I know it was sort of a small show, maybe 30 to 40 dealers. But high prices and limited amount of good quality coins .... it just seemed crazy compared to what I am use to seeing at coin shows.

Are other members seeing this at their smaller local coin shows.

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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 01/17/2012  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Price shock was one of the reasons why I decided to strategically change my numismatic interests way back in the early 1970's.

My current scope of numismatic interest now covers all coins, ancient to modern up to about 1950, all cultures. The only real requirement I now have is that the coin I may be interested in buying was originally intended for circulation. I do make exceptions for patterns, proofs and errors, produced up to about 1950.

With that huge field of interest, finding individual coins that are of high interest and are good value for money are much easier to come by. I would much rather get a scarce coin of a series to build a type set with, than build a whole series of one type or denomination.

The downside is that a large reference library is needed, and you may need professional assistance when considering big ticket items, (especially with ancients), because of a lack of specialist knowledge. That however, does not stop you from buying lower priced items that represent good value for money at the time of purchase.

Basically, I have been a cherry picker of a large section of the whole numismatic field for the last 40 years. A good way to acquire a long term numismatic investment, as well has having a lifelong numismatic interest. You never stop learning.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basically what you experienced is becoming common at coin shows. I go to coin shows all the time and see that same trend appearing more amd more. At a few coin shows one dealer usually has prices even over the Red Book on almost all his coins. Another dealer has his prices way over Red Book and on his web site, the same super high prices. Of course not all dealers are like this at all coin shows. For example the really large shows prices are normally excessive due to all the costs for dealers.
However, I suspect that due to the State Quarters, Park Quarters, baby dollars with presidets, coin collecting is now hitting a new high. Prices everywhere are showing this.
In addition, remember that the population is growing massively and the quantity of existing, older coins is not changing. This means that a coin with a mintage of a few hundred thousand is almost now rare due to our population in the USA being well over 300,000,000. So picture if only 1% collected coins which would mean most of those will never see or buy many coins needed for a collection. And if they do find them, the prices will reflect this situation.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187702 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  12:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have not noticed this at my local coin show, but it could be that I am not looking for it. I seem to have settled on certain dealers over the last few shows, so unless those particular dealers are going crazy, I might not notice.
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wquinn's Avatar
United States
2295 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is too bad there are a few dealers like that and the reason it pays to shop around.


Quote:
However, I suspect that due to the State Quarters, Park Quarters, baby dollars with presidets, coin collecting is now hitting a new high. Prices everywhere are showing this.


Another reason is from the instability of the economy and from the increase in the price of gold and silver. People are investing more in bullion and gold/silver coins now than ever before. You can see all of the record prices at the auctions on the really rare coins. It'll have the affect on lifting up price of the non rare ones too.
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DVCollector's Avatar
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10045 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am also seeing over RB on some coins, notably IHCs sold by "specialist" dealers.
Overall, it's tougher to find problem-free IHCs that are priced fairly, but that's probably supply/demand.

If I've noticed any trend among dealers, it's that they're not buying new inventory. A lot appear to be slowly closing up.
Perhaps this is putting pressure on prices for popular coins, despite the economy. And, perhaps other dealers are trying to "cash out", and putting their hopes in their stock? Or it could be optimistic pricing, on consignment. Just a lot of speculation on my part, but I suspect that many collections will come up for sale in the next decade, and that collectors just need to be patient; supply will come back.
Edited by DVCollector
01/18/2012 12:30 pm
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War Nickel's Avatar
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 Posted 01/18/2012  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add War Nickel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Would the price of silver have anything to do with this?
I bought an MS-67 ANACS slabbed War Nickel (1942 P I believe...) for about $45...affordable for such a high grade and fascinating coin , die cracks included! I like the die cracks...
The first coin my father ever gave me when I was 7 or 8 was a 194x S or D War Nickel (have since lost it , unfortunately...)...nickels seem to be affordable and some have interesting histories...the mechanical engineer in me finds the striking problems of the first nickels since nickel is such a difficult metal to take a strike compared to the more malleable silver and gold....
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5823 Posts
 Posted 01/18/2012  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do quick browsing around my local show and usually ends up with 1 or 2 dealers that I always have done business with, some of the new dealers that shows up selling 2x - 2.5x more.

One new dealer have his table by the door, and he joke that he haven't earn his fin yet to belong with the rest of the sharks, he sell his coins within numismedia guide prices.
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gallienus267's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/18/2012  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gallienus267 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An Ike set in a Dansco BU & proof should run 200.00 maybe (slighty) more. A telemarketer called me a couple of weeks ago trying to sell a graded 25th silver eagle set. Asked if I had heard of these & I said unfortunately I had. He asked what I meant and I told him that weeks ago they were sold for 299.95 and now are 2500.00 + or -. He said hey these are graded and I told him that I would never pay to grade bullion. Morgan dollars etc are a different story. He never called back To try to turn 299.95 into 10,000 is just nuts.
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wquinn's Avatar
United States
2295 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wquinn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply



Quote:
and I told him that I would never pay to grade bullion


That is an awesome answer and I totally agree with it!

I think too many people interpret the ASE as a coin and not as bullion. The proofs are different, since they are a collector version, but the BU shouldn't be treated as a coin.
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biggfredd's Avatar
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9104 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That is too bad there are a few dealers like that and the reason it pays to shop around.

That's one way to look at it, but in every collecting hobby I'm familiar with, there are a few dealers who make it a point to have everything in high demand, and they get top dollar for it.

For example, when GIJoe comics were hot, I wasted a day looking for them. The dealer with the best selection had about a dozen, 8 of which were reprints. Before searching, we had 52...different originals. Anyone collecting them knew they could come to us and pay the big bucks instead of wasting their time and gas.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  12:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In addition to what I mentioned previously about the increase in population of people, many other factors are creating an increase in prices of coins. This system of a 70 point grading makes that jump for the upper 60's appear to be something never seen before and many are out there looking for coins graded as MS-68, -69 and even that elusive -70.
Coins in slabs too have created a jump in coin prices since people pay to have their coins slabbed and graded and then expect that money back when selling. I remember back when all coins were just raw or in 2x2's. Slowly more and more coins are appearing in slabs at coin shows. Lately I think about 50% of all coins at some of the shows I go to are in slabs. A few dealers at one show havea all slabbed coins and thisr prices reflect this.
Dealers are now insuring their inventory more and more due to all the crimes committed on coins. This too has created an increase in what a dealer expects.
So if you note the incrase in population of collectors, insurances, slabbing of coins, selling on the internet that requires postage, handling, Paypal costs, etc., coin prices are increasing acccordingly.
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 Posted 01/19/2012  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with Carl. I beleive that almost all coins are appreciating in value, especially higher grade and more rare specimens. There is an insatiable demand for premium coins and higher prices reflect this demand. Many of these coins are being held back now by serious collectors and dealers until prices rise to reflect this demand. And, even when these coins come out of collections or dealers hands in some quantity don't expect prices to go down. As to the bargains on ebay and at Auction Houses, I beleive the lower prices being realized will end soon as customers and sellers come to realize the true rarity of their coins. As for the ASE price at the coin show stated above...probably the flavor of the month, but,...who knows?
Rest in Peace
biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If I've noticed any trend among dealers, it's that they're not buying new inventory.

Which only makes sense, if the current market is strong. The time to buy inventory is when coins are cheap.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1893S to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dealers I know are buying all the quality coins they can get their hands on as quality coins are in high demand. Especially Morgans, Walkers, Standing Libertys, Gem Indian pennys and Buffalos. Common dates and lower grades are flat now but will sell in large quantities around here.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 01/19/2012  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There is an insatiable demand for premium coins and higher prices reflect this demand. Many of these coins are being held back now by serious collectors and dealers until prices rise to reflect this demand.
Another factor to consider is the demographic bulge that comprises the collector base for the past few decades. These guys (and many dealers) have pushed up prices for a good run, but when they retire, pass away, or otherwise cash out--the market is going to be flooded with these collections. There is no insatiable demand, no permanent plateau for any collector item that depends so much on disposable income. This has peaked with a demographic, and the emerging collector base--people who are in their teens, 20s, and 30s today--will set a new price structure. Most of these people won't have gobs of moon money to throw at coins, nor have been bit by the "investor/collector bug" that hit an earlier generation--there is a very large perceptual break at work.

--Just my personal opinion on collecting, and various markets that have been affected by the "boomer bulge"--and the ensuing downside.
Edited by DVCollector
01/19/2012 7:33 pm
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