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1799 Draped Bust Silver Dollar 15 Stars

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 Posted 04/02/2012  5:46 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add NancyMcI to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Thank you for a great forum with so much information - just great.

I have a 1799 Draped Bust Liberty Silver Dollar with 15 stars (two covered by enlarged clouds). I would appreciate your expertise in grading this coin and possibly an approximate value. Many thanks in advance.

1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars



1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars

1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars
Edited by NancyMcI
04/02/2012 5:48 pm
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/02/2012  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


There are too many stars on the reverse, there should only be 13 (for the original colonies) not 15. The second row are very crude.

This is a replica, IMO.

...there I go again...my ignorance is showing
Edited by oih82w8
04/03/2012 12:06 am
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vermontensium's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/02/2012  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin needs to be certified. I count 13 stars. What is the coins weight?
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coincollect1's Avatar
Canada
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 Posted 04/02/2012  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coincollect1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I count 13 stars too.
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jeffrose's Avatar
United States
1432 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2012  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffrose to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nancy . . first - to the forum.

2nd: I agree that this coin needs to be certified. It is an example of "Irregular Date, 15 Star Reverse". http://www.earlydollars.org/coindata.asp?ID=42
The edge should be lettered "HUNDRED CENTS ONE DOLLAR OR UNIT" and it should weigh 27 grams. It has VG-10 details but I would grade it VG-8 due to the dings on the rim both obverse and reverse. This is a $1000-$1200 coin if real.

How did you acquire this and do you have other coins?
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/02/2012  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this one of his "stars"...or is this my imagination?

1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars

I guess that I was going by the OP (two covered by enlarged clouds)
Edited by oih82w8
04/02/2012 9:12 pm
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vermontensium's Avatar
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 Posted 04/02/2012  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I saw that originally too and if that's the case, would put at 14 stars and most likely, a counterfeit. There should be 3 stars left and right.
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Darth Anarchus's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/02/2012  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Anarchus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin shop formerly in my area that had an original of this exact type (certified) looked almost to the T of what this is except it was VF-35... However I am far from an expert on this type, however I can remember that coin like it was yesterday... Very convincing IF it is a counterfeit...
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2012  11:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is Bolender-4. The larger clouds left and right masked the accidental two extra stars punched into the reverse. Note the prominent (and characteristic) radial die crack between obverse stars 11 & 12 - in a clearer pic, you'll also see a striking crack running through the left stars into the bottom of the date. Another runs from star #1 into the hair, and later die states have one through LIB of LIBERTY.

This one's R-4, among the rarest of 1799 varieties, and although counterfeits are always a possibility, B-4's distinctive marks lend credence to its' authenticity.
Heritage has offered only 10 of these in the last decade.

NancyMcl, welcome to Coin Community. This is a bit of a splash into our pool. I'm going to call it VF20 or so, with a value of around $2000 - maybe a bit more - depending on a third-party grader's opinion of the two rim dings around 9:00 obverse. As I mentioned, a counterfeit is always a possibility but yours is a very distinctive variety.

This coin needs to be evaluated by an expert, in-hand. If you'd like to inform us of your geographical area, we might be able to steer you to an appropriate person.
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2012  11:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

It looks like your coin is a match for a Bolender-4 variety, Irregular Date with 15 Star Reverse. I would grade it as VF details w/ light rim damage. Some of the diagnostics for obverse are as follows- first 9 in date high and tilted, three stars at lower left are closer together than the other stars, and star 13 touches the top of the drapery. Diagnostics for the reverse are as follows- seven stars on the top row, six in the second row, and two on the bottom row. Stars 1 and 7 on the top row ends were mistakes that were mostly covered by the embellished re-engraving of the outer clouds. Two points of star 1 and two tips of star 7 peek out from underneath the clouds.

source: The United States Early Silver Dollars 1794-1803 by Jules Reiver
Edited by biokemist6
04/02/2012 11:48 pm
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Earle42's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 04/02/2012  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try this link for a little help:
http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddate3.htm

According to your pictures (kind of hard to tell which date style is on this coin), I came up with the final result of:
http://www.earlydollars.org/wizarddata.asp?ID=112

I may be wrong, but the problem I see with the online reverse and yours is that some of the letter spacing (like the space between the E and D in United does not look as wide on your coin), as some of the lettering looks different (like the E in States - the bottom horizontal member of your E appears to have an end that is pointed on top and bottom - the online one only has a pointed top), and some of the stars do not look to be shaped properly (could be PMD) such as the one directly above "Unum" on the ribbon in the eagle' mouth.

I deliberately bought a silver replica from China a few years ago:
1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars
1799-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar-15-Stars

Mine is different than yours an the only way I see to tell it is a fake is by some of the letter spacing and the bottoms of the serifs on mine are slightly curved (A,T,and E in STATES) while the legit piece has straight bottoms on the same serifs. Also the spacing in the lettering in UNITED on mine has the letters spaced slightly further apart than on a legit.

Remember - I am NOT an expert. And I hope yours is legit.
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oih82w8's Avatar
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 Posted 04/03/2012  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Earle42, your "earlydollars" websites must be good! Because they are ACCESS DENIED!
Edited by oih82w8
04/03/2012 12:05 am
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  03:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Earle42, your "earlydollars" websites must be good! Because they are ACCESS DENIED!


No trouble getting on their pages on my end Mac OSX and Safari. Maybe was a tempoary issue? Try just typing in the earlydollars.org part and see if you can get in that way, the site is pretty easy to navigate.
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oih82w8's Avatar
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 Posted 04/03/2012  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's the internet filter at work...lots of sites (thankfully not CCF) are blocked. No worries, I'll just check 'em out at the house.
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 Posted 04/03/2012  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NancyMcI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many thanks for all your information. To answer a few questions:

Coin weight is 27 grams

This coin was part of a small collection from my grandfather stored in a small metal box.

I live in the San Jose,CA area and any recommendations for a reliable dealer are welcome.

I will have this coin certified.

Again, many thanks for your input.

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