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Inspiration Lost

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Pillar of the Community
Drsandman2's Avatar
United States
1374 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  05:20 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Unfortunately, I seem to be soured on our most beloved hobby. About six weeks ago, Rick Snow logged onto the Fly-in Club site to brag about his cherry pick of an 1888/7 Indian Head cent. He then proceeded to post pictures of his cleaning job, removing dirt and verdigris, and bragging how he will make $12,000 off the pick.

My experience with the club was such that very few answered my legitimate posts. And certainly, never Mr. Snow. The club is nothing more than a venue for the long-term members to brag about their exploitations... and ability to clean copper. Legit questions were never answered; praise was reserved for those who were cherry picking MS coins in slabs.

Since watching Rick Snow brag about his picks, and share post-cleaning pictures... I've lost interest in my favorite hobby. It is like a piece of my heart died.

I'm so disjointed... my taste for the hobby has been ruined and I'm not sure if I will recover. For instance, last time I looked over my type set, I did so with disdain. I found it hard to appreciate my coins. I'm devastated.
Edited by Drsandman2
11/11/2012 05:26 am
Pillar of the Community
matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  06:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tried to look at the Fly-in Club and I was not allowed to read the members' area.
How unlike the CCF where one can view without restriction before joining.
You WILL recover, after the hurt and disdain passes. It is not your coins which cause you grief,
but rather those "collectors" who put bragging rights ahead of the joy of ownership and the knowledge gained
after many years of study.

At least, that is how I see it.
Take care,
Matthew
Pillar of the Community
CoinsKelly's Avatar
United States
3453 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  08:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find those that brag feel like they have the most to lose.

Right now we cannot afford to purchase the high end stuff (who am I kidding, my budget is $50 / month and right now I am not spending) but I know that I can post in CCF and always get a wink, some info or, if I totally blew it, a sympathy pat on the back. (Of if SteveX is on the thread, total and unabashed harassment because he knows I will come back for more ).

I have no experience with that particular club but if that is the case, I bet it is a cyclical thing. You can always glean bits of info from lurking.

Just focus on what you have, CCF is a great home base. Plus enjoy YOUR type-set and other treasures you have gathered.
Pillar of the Community
macmercury's Avatar
United States
5826 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read Rick's article in CoinWorld, but I don't blame him for being excited finding it nor writing about it.

There are times we all dream about finding treasures and but a few would careless.

CoinsKelly puts it best, just focus what you have and enjoy YOUR type-set, and hopefully you find that treasure next time. Whether you want to share among fellow CCF members next is all up to you!
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52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8516 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  10:50 am  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's not cleaning, it's "conserving".
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
Pillar of the Community
philadelphian's Avatar
United States
3253 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  11:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The banality of the cult of money lost me my inspiration for coins for some thirty years. I can afford to own many of the great coins we discuss on this forum; I've just learned it's more satisfying for me to just learn everything I can about them. I know there are some terrific plums in your type set, Drsandman2, just don't let someone else's attitude turn them into sour grapes!
My philosophy of coin collecting I found in the words of William Penn, and I put it in my signature...
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally, I'm not too happy with the recent election results ... Do I then give up my citizenship, move to Australia? Heck, no! Just change gears, adapt, and focus on other interests.

Having collected coins for over fifty years now, there were lapses in my interest, the reasons varying, the absence sometimes lasting years. Yet, I would eventually gravitate back. This hobby has been a joy. The CCF has many kindly and helpful folks therein, yet there have been some very unkind exchanges posted at times. Nothing is perfect, and who among us is all that perfect? Whether it's a coin or an attitude, we all need to let go and move on at times. Personally, I'm happy for anyone who makes a great find, including Mr. Snow.

We can all learn a lesson here from Mr. Snow. I've never met him, but from what I've read, he's long been immersed in study and writing about coins. Serious collectors, students of this great hobby, those who buy books and participate in clubs and forums, network, have a far better chance of making great finds than those who simply accumulate coins and plug holes.
Valued Member
SmallEagle's Avatar
United States
102 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SmallEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I looked at it the opposite way. Frankly, I don't care much for small cents but I spent a few hours after reading his post searching on ebay hoping to find the same variety myself. Knowledge is power in this world and Rick Snow is one of the foremost experts in this area.

I congratulate him for finally being able to execute upon the knowledge he's gained in a very dramatic way - I imagine he's never cherrypicked an 1888/7 1c before, which is why he's been posting everywhere about it. That's a long return on his knowledge investment, but it proves that doing your research can pay off handsomely.

In today's world where there are thousands of people watching ebay constantly and where there were probably a few hundred people that closely looked at that exact auction, it's amazing that cherrypicks like this can still occur.

The conservation of the coin and end result of how it looked are indeed a bit jarring to me as well but we as collectors will always find all coins "post conservation". If you do find something worth considerably more than you paid through a cherrypick and it doesn't look as good as it could, it's probably worth getting it conserved, or maybe even talking to Rick Snow himself and paying him to "enhance" it if you're planning on selling. This coin definitely had verdigris on it and needed to be conserved, and I imagine the better photos made it "pop" much more as well.

So, in summary, don't feel cheated or let down by the hobby - I'm sure that's not what he meant to have happen. The take away here is that there are extreme deals out there if you have enough information and that information is available to everyone.

Hope that helps :)
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think there is anyone on the forum that hasn't been where you are now if they have been collecting any length of time at all. Life can change your interests many times throughout life but I feel a collector has something special inside them about what they find appealing and beautiful that they like to collect. Even if life changes their feelings, if they live long enough one day they will think about those times when they really enjoyed collecting what ever it was and will start back up. I have not seen the before or even the after pictures of this coin but there is a difference between conserving and cleaning a coin. There have been many coins conserved properly that added value to the coin, there have been many that were cleaned harshly that ruined all value also. I do not know Rick personally but we all know the name even if we aren't into the series he is known for. He has the knowledge it takes to make those huge finds and just because he is a dealer that specializes in one series doesn't make him not a collector at heart. Most good dealers have a passion for coins and that is why they try to make a business out of it. Its something they love and I have always heard that if you love your job you will never have a bad day at work. I myself have been the recipient of a HUGE find (even though I didn't know what it was when it was purchased) that turned out to be worth multiples of what was paid for it so I know how exciting it can be and how much you want to share the information with fellow collectors that have the same interest. Not only to get a way to go from them but also to let them know they are still finds out there and they too can find them if they know what to look for. I am sure some think of it as bragging and it may make them even a little jealous but I am not one of those people, I am just happy for them and also glad they thought enough of us to share their finds with us. I know if I would have found a special coin I would have posted it for all of the friends that share the same interest to see. Not only because I am happy but also because there is no one else I can share this type of information with that would ever understand the significance of the find. We all share the love of coins and I think sooner or later someone is going to realize what every coin is and what its worth. Sometimes it seems the coins choose who it reveals its secrets to and when so we just have to wait for that time one reveals itself to us and we can share the feeling of being the one who has found a significant coin
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Gyrene7483's Avatar
United States
1704 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gyrene7483 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's not cleaning, it's "conserving".

Conserving is just another word for people who when buying coins will pay pennies on the dollar for a cleaned coin yet buy a dirty coin cheap (pun intended) and then conserve it to maximize their profits as justification of their actions. A seller should be required to disclose if a coin they have for sale has been conserved and in my opinion not doing so is unethical just like stating a coin has not been cleaned when it obviously has been.

Ed
ANA LM-3175
Bedrock of the Community
Bryan1315's Avatar
United States
14454 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It took me awhile to post that last post because my mind was racing with things to say and they were all jumbled up in the post so I had to read and re-read it a few times to try and have it make sense. After I posted I saw SmallEagle had posted in this time and he said

Quote:
In today's world where there are thousands of people watching ebay constantly and where there were probably a few hundred people that closely looked at that exact auction, it's amazing that cherrypicks like this can still occur.

The coin I am talking about that was a HUGE find for me was on ebay in someones ebay store for months without being purchased. The seller had huge clear pictures of the coin and once it was identified as what it was you could clearly see what the coin actually was by those pictures. Myself and another moderator had even spoke to each other about this very coin at a time when neither of us could afford to purchase it but both were very interested in it as it was a series we both shared interest in. It ended a couple times on ebay without a buyer but was always on my mind and I found out the seller also had a website where he sold coins. I was looking at the coin on his website and a friend who did have the money purchased the coin for me, all the time with me thinking it was something else as I am sure all the other VAM collectors besides this other Moderator and myself did when it was on ebay all that time. That is why I said I think sometimes its the coin that chooses us instead of us choosing the coins. There can be many that is interested in that series looking at the coin and still not be able to really see what it actually is until its to late.
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ArrowsAndRays's Avatar
United States
1656 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It's not cleaning, it's "conserving".

Evidently it depends on
1. whether you're selling, or buying, the coin.
2. your relationship with the TPG your sending your cleaned - er... "conserved" coin to.
Pillar of the Community
52Raymo's Avatar
United States
8516 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Check 52Raymo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 52Raymo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
It's not cleaning, it's "conserving".

Quote:

Evidently it depends on
1. whether you're selling, or buying, the coin.
2. your relationship with the TPG your sending your cleaned - er... "conserved" coin to.


Haha exactly !
Ive now gone through all my 1888's looking for the holy grail...
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  4:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I read about Rick Snows cherrypick on the PCGS forum, what would you have him do? Contact the seller and give him some extra money?
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acloco's Avatar
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Knowledge is power.

In this case, his knowledge was his gain.

In terms of cleaning v. conserving, I am with others here....that is an ethics question.
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daniels's Avatar
United States
1620 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2012  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daniels to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dont let those people ruin your dream and passion for coin collecting keep your head up and continue doing the thing you enjoy
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