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rking007's Avatar
United States
784 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2013  01:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rking007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I poked around the forum a bit a couldn't find what I was looking for so any links to forum posts already on this are welcomed! So, just a few questions...

- What does it mean when a coin has been 'dipped'? I've read plenty about the use of acetone and it's safety on coins, and I've read plenty about NOT cleaning coins with anything other than acetone, and even a little bit about Verdi-clean and verdigris but whenever I read about 'dipped' coins it also has something to do with toned coins. So what is the 'dip'? and how is it different from cleaning or gassing or any other artificial methods of toning that, so far, I gather are bad?

- Second, regarding silver and gold, what is 'spot'? '10% over spot', 'I got it under spot!', etc... I assume that it means the current value of said metal but is this correct?

It's a little overwhelming learning this hobby with all the abbreviations and terms! BWR, CWR, VAM, LWC, dipped, spot, etc... but I'm loving it!
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Mechman's Avatar
United States
275 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2013  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mechman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


If you look on the side bar under navigation you will see a glossary. It has most of the answers that you have. Most experts here will say that you should never clean coins with anything. You need to weigh the value against the possible improvement caused by a cleaning technique. Keep on asking those questions. I'm still learning too.
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2013  03:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So what is the 'dip'? and how is it different from cleaning or gassing or any other artificial methods of toning that, so far, I gather are bad?


Long story short basically theres some forms of "cleaning" that are acceptable while the majority of them are not. That could change one day but thats how it is right now.


Quote:
Second, regarding silver and gold, what is 'spot'? '10% over spot', 'I got it under spot!', etc... I assume that it means the current value of said metal but is this correct?


Correct. When referring to a coin its referring to the value of the precious metal in the coin. Silver and gold are the most common but it would also refer to platinum, palladium or any other metal that is purchased in a bullion form.

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Earle42's Avatar
United States
10038 Posts
 Posted 03/15/2013  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any cleaning by scrubbing is harmful.

Dipping:
When I was younger, my coin dealer sold a coin dip. The dip would actually remove some of the surface of the metal to brighten the coin. It gave an artificial looking brightness when compared to a coin that has actual mint luster. It does not impart colorful tones such as gassing.
Since it removed the surface, it is harmful.

Acetone does not remove any of the surface of a coin. All it does is remove residue and dirt that will dissolve in it. I have taken many old coins from circulation that, under magnification, had "gunk" inside loops of letters etc. When I gave it a 10 second bath in acetone, the only perceivable difference was some of the gunk was gone. After repeating this process, all of the loops of letters etc. were clear of gunk. It makes for a way to see re-punched MMs.

I know that a lot of dealers sell something called MS 70 which is marketed (on the bottle) as a coin brightener. I admit when I found a couple of proofs that had been circulated, and looked pretty crummy, the MS70 made them look a lot nicer and closer to original. But since they were only worth .50 anyway, there was not harm, IMO, in using this on them. It just increased their eye appeal. I do not believe they are nice enough looking ever to be taken as non-circulated proofs - especially since they still have typical contact marks on them.
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rking007's Avatar
United States
784 Posts
 Posted 03/16/2013  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rking007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Earle - For some reason I was always under the impression that dipping artificially toned the coins. I wish I could remember why I thought that! Ha. Thanks for the info and heads up on the Glossary here. I've got a lot of reading to do it looks like... :)
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16834 Posts
 Posted 03/16/2013  04:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So what is the 'dip'?

Some folks somewhat carelessly speak of "dipping a coin in acetone", or "dipping a coin in soapy water", thus muddying the terminology.

"Dip", when used in a coin cleaning context as a noun rather than a verb, is a coin cleaning agent which is intended to remove toning, or tarnish, from silver coins. A typical dip is composed of water, thiourea and an acidic agent. The actual acid used varies from mixture to mixture; some use sulfuric acid, some use something milder such as citric acid. The acidic nature of "dip" means that attempting to use it on copper, copper-alloy or other base-metal coins will most likely destroy the coin.

Dipping a coin in acetone or water is harmless to the coin. Dipping a coin in "dip" will strip off whatever toning it may have and, in all likelihood, create a coin that "looks cleaned". Collectors don't want coins that "look cleaned". Coin dealers, knowing this, pay less money for coins that "look cleaned". Which is why cleaning coins is generally seen as "bad".

Quote:
regarding silver and gold, what is 'spot'?

Again, some careless usage of terminology has muddled up two different terms, though in this case it rarely causes confusion.

The "Spot Price" of a precious metal is the price for that metal quoted on the news or on precious metal websites such as Kitco, or on our own CCF spot prices page, which you can also find a link to over on the left hand side of your screen in the Navigation sidebar. Spot prices are typically quoted in US dollars per ounce of pure silver.

Thus, "Spot Price" is a property of the metal as a whole, not of specific objects made out of that metal. It is more correct to talk about the "bullion value" of a coin, rather than the "spot price" of a coin. To calculate bullion value from spot price, you need to know the Actual Silver Weight of the coin in question or, if this is unknown, the actual weight of the coin as well as the fineness (purity) of the silver in that coin. The calculation is thus:

BV = Spot Price x ASW

or

BV = Spot Price x weight (converted to troy ounces) x fineness

People in other countries have to add in a conversion factor for their currency, since spot prices are rarely quoted in anything other than US dollars.
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