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Silver Price Vs Red Book Price.

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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 10/18/2013  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think older (recent edition) RedBook pricing can be of help.
Some circumspection is required, however.

Look at the foreword of the book. There should be some note regarding the then current spot bullion price, at the time of writing.
Determine the then bullion price of the coin, and subtract that from the listed price to get the numismatic premium value at the time of writing.

Mostly, numismatic premiums are more stable than the spot bullion prices.
With this sort of background pricing information, it IS possible to deduce a close market approximation value of the coin you are considering.
Nevertheless, the later the edition of the pricing book you are using the better, because less forward interpolation of the numismatic premium is required.

Add the current ASW bullion price to the numismatic premium you have deduced.
Edited by sel_69l
10/18/2013 11:10 pm
Valued Member
Superhal's Avatar
United States
315 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2013  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Superhal to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@bstrauss: I'd like to see at least one example of a Morgan dollar that follows your logic.In all examples I've seen, numis value and silver value have been additive, and I'd like to meet the dealer who melted one.

@tpg22: that has to be taken in context. Today, for example, it would be considered common sense to melt 59-81 pennies for the copper.
Edited by Superhal
10/19/2013 06:51 am
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garys64wildcat's Avatar
United States
593 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2013  11:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add garys64wildcat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Back when silver was over $45 per oz I had rolls of silver, WL,48&49 Franklins and 200 silver Dollars that I sold. I could have bought them back for less at a later date.
Now I wish I had them back because alot of them were good dates and the melt made them scarcer
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2013  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
as usual most realize that the prices in the Red Book are basically way off. The Red Book is printed sometimes during a year, values are sort of based on the last edition plus a slight increase if the market at the time shows more interest in Numismatics. None of their prices are based on Gold, Silver or any other metal. Whitman's only attempt is for a coin value. And too, remember that their Red Book is always a year in advance. Basically the values or coins originally were intended to be possibly what they WILL be when the books date is current. By that I mean a 2011 edition is supposed to have prices of coins in 2012. Oddly enough more confusion is due to the Red Book always being dated a year in advance and is issued for sale during April of a year far in the future. This coming April, 2014, the 2015 Red Book will be being issued. All in all such things should always make people realize no one knows what the prices of anything will be a year from now. It is highly improbable that any prices in the Red Book will ever be accurate. Silver and Gold can go up and down a million times and the Red Book is a book. Just can't change prices in a book.
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welder's Avatar
United States
1037 Posts
 Posted 10/19/2013  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add welder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ebay is probably the best gauge of a coins true value.

Search for something like a 1995 ASE. After typing the description in the search bar, a a bunch of active listing will appear. On the left-hand side you'll be able to refine your search. Under the "Show Only" section, check the box titled "Sold Listings" and a list of sold 1995 ASE's will be displayed with the price it sold for. Then average out the price and you have your comp.

Valued Member
Pipewelder's Avatar
United States
51 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2013  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pipewelder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I find ebay to have the most inconsistent price.

If the RedBook is a guide and it does not reflect spot value how does numismatic value change being different then the book? What sets the price?
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Broseph's Avatar
United States
979 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2013  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that ebay is the best way of telling true value. Items are worth what someone will pay (or, how much it would cost to make them give it up)
You have to take an AVERAGE of what something sells for to get a good idea.

I was looking a particular item that I recently bought and found it is worth about $70-$80 on ebay (reverse proof zodiac Ag round)

Now, I saw one sell for over $200, and I also saw one sell for under $30. The $30 one was probably posted at a bad time in the wee hours of the morning.
The $200+ one was probably posted at a lucky time with some rich people fighting to finish a set.

In statistics, those would be called "outliers." Basically they don't fit the pattern.

They are the only 2 I saw that didn't sell in the $70-$80 range.

So what do I say my coin is worth? Around $75.

Now if silver goes up by $1 per oz, will that change the value of the coin? No. The market doesn't swing that way.
Now, if silver jumped $10 per oz, maybe it would go up, but I wouldn't expect $10, or even close to it

The main point is something is worth what people will pay. Trying to divide up what part of the value goes where doesn't work. Junk silver sells for about 20x face on ebay. Mercury dimes will sell for 22x face. $0.20 numismatic value? Not really. When junk silver was selling at 15x face people would still pay around 20x for mercs. is that $0.50 numismatics? Basically all you can say in that case is people pay more for mercs.
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United States
1590 Posts
 Posted 10/20/2013  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a dealer; a good rule of thumb is to take half the price from the current RedBook for coins grading under MS. The more common the coin the more likely that rule is to work.

And what I mean is that half the price is usually what the real market price is. I like the RedBook, and it has value, but people come in the shop all the time with a coin and RedBook and say they want to sell me "x" coin, and then point to it's RedBook value.

Usually when I show them the same coin, in the same or better grade, at a lower price they get it. Sometimes people really want to argue, because the RedBook has been the Standard; until the Grey Sheet. And even the Grey Sheet can be way off.
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Pipewelder's Avatar
United States
51 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  3:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pipewelder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So the coins in your shop are 1/2 the RedBook value? I'm common coins of course?
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Pipewelder's Avatar
United States
51 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pipewelder to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the shops in my area use the RedBook. The coin prices dont very much for it. They buy and sell off it.

Here the RedBook is "off" and ebay is the way to go! I just didn't see this coming.
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trdhrdr007's Avatar
United States
2335 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trdhrdr007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When I started collecting coins(for the 3rd time) back in 2007 I went to a big coin show in Atlanta. There was a dealer there that had 2 huge bins of low grade common date Peace & Morgan dollars. Many had been cleaned and/or were otherwise impaired, but all were for sale at slightly over spot.

We've had this discussion several times & I have always maintained that the sale price of low grade common date coins is almost entirely based on the spot price. In fact, I put my money where my mouth was & listed a few silver dollars that met that description for less than spot in the auction section. They didn't generate much interest & ended up selling right around spot. That's not much of a sample, but at that time & place they were only worth spot.
Edited by trdhrdr007
10/21/2013 5:33 pm
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BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4592 Posts
 Posted 10/21/2013  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most dealers I've seen at shows use the Grey Sheet for buying price and for selling price. They also know what they have invested in the coin and therefore what they need to receive for a sale.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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