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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,164 |
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Valued Member
United States
161 Posts |
About 15 years ago, I bought an AU 1913 Type I Buffalo nickel for a nickel type set. The price I paid (at a coin shop) was about the going price for a nice lustrous AU coin of that date and type. I'd had the coin for several months when, looking at it one day, I noticed there was significant die rotation...I would estimate about 20 degrees. An added "bonus" to my purchase, I guess!  Anyway, what I'm wondering is... 1. Is such die rotation still possible today? 2. On a coin like mine, is it possible to determine which die (obverse or reverse) was rotated? Thanks! Steve
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2177 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
161 Posts |
Sorry, I no longer have the coin.
Best description I can give:
With the obverse oriented straight up and down, a careful coin-flip resulted in the top of the reverse pointing about 20 degrees (or a little more) to your right.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Making an assumption of the rotation question. On the MAD (MisAligned Dies) I've noticed the reverse is usually not at fault. The obverses seem to be slightly off center.  So I'm assuming the Obverse die is out of alignment and reverse die seems to be fixed in the proper position. (This is just an assumption) So one die appears that it could be adjusted. The MAD coins are very common and it seems the adjustment isn't made as it is within tolerance. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2177 Posts |
Now that you mention it and with the pic the MAD I've seen have seem to have been only on the observe. Thanks for pointing that out coop and thanks for the question Firecom911.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
668 Posts |
I have a rotated die penny... ill take a picture and show it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
668 Posts |
Heres the coin I was talking about   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Die rotation is still possible, it is rather common, and is not considered anything special below 45 degrees, generally.
Coop - misaligned dies and rotated dies are two completely different subjects. Completely unrelated.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Chuck : True they are. I was pointing out that it seems one of the dies could be adjusted. Wavystep or you know more about the 'lug' that hold the die in place than I, so maybe someone could elaborate on this. Lugs in the wrong position or wear on the lugs can make a rotation of the die. Not sure of the details on this subject. so someone may add to it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
Both the obverse and the reverse dies are placed into the press and are keyed differently. There are parts to the shape of the die that are different for the obverse die that are different from the keys on a reverse die. That is to try to assure that you can't pair up two obverse dies and two reverse dies in the same press. When a die is placed into the press, it is locked down. (I am not sure of the exact method of how it is locked down) In any case if the locking mechanism fails, the die can become loose and rotate in the press. This can happen with either die. Back in 1913, the coin presses sruck coins in an up and down manner. It was more common for the locking device to loosen on the hammer die which was the obverse on Buffalo nickels. So it is more likely that the obverse die rotated but it could also have been the reverse die. I hope this helps |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1582 Posts |
I posted this once before in another topic, but thought it worthwhile to dust it off and post it again since this thread is dealing with rotated dies. Image:  1880Ind1centRotatedRev.jpg74.12 KB |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Many years ago as I turned the pages of a Whitman Classic Album for Mercury dimes I thought I had dropped the entire book somewhere. About half the Dimes on the reverses were rotated. I then looked at my other Mercury dime Albums more closely. In 7 more Albums, basically the same thing. I then started to look at duplicates in 2x2's and noticed the same thing. Eventually I would find that a good 30 or 40% of all my Mercury dimes were reverse rotated from a few degrees to over 90degrees. Out of these about 80% were rotated to the left at the top and the rest rotated to the right. Over the years I've mentioned this to dealers at shows and in some instances won small wager bets by claiming almost any Mercury dime will have a rotated reverse to some degree. Check it out and see if yours are as rotated as mine. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1582 Posts |
Carl, you made me pull out my mercury album and check. I've only got one, and it's a work in progress (still missing that elusive 1916D). Of the 76 mercs in my album, 42 of them show a rotation.
Ralph
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Carl, you made me pull out my mercury album and check. I've only got one, and it's a work in progress (still missing that elusive 1916D). Of the 76 mercs in my album, 42 of them show a rotation. Ralph Wow, yours are more so than most of mine. Your running over 50%. Fantastic. At first it makes you think you did something wrong when you see that. I asked a dealer I know about that and he said I must be wrong, there couldn't be that many. He started to look at all his Mercury dimes in 2x2's and was shocked at how many were rotated. foundinrolls makes it sound like it could be either obverse or reverse rotated. HMMMMM. Guess we may never know. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,164 |
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Posted 08/29/2007 12:03 am
1880Ind1centRotatedRev.jpg
