jerseyben You ask two questions;
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Bob, is it true that many people currently accept these class 2 pieces as genuine specimens?
It begs the question: If people don't know it is a counterfeit and it is being treated as genuine, is it really a counterfeit?
The easy answer to the first question is yes. The average dealer and the TPGs can not tell one type from the other. They also do not admit to being aware the Class 2 coins ever existed. They could if they chose to distinguish many of the Class 2 coins today but chose not to for financial reasons. They are not purists.
Now it is a fact that written records from the period PROVE these coins did exist. These same records also indicate that some were "perfect" copies. So the expectation from the 1880s has been that it is impossible or nearly impossible to tell them apart.
That attitude as been around since the early part of the last century. It was true then but not now.
When I was very young (early teen) I knew an old dealer a couple towns over who was a friend of my uncle's that had a small shop. He was a World Coin specialist and I was fascinated with World Coin Counterfeits. A few years later I sorted out Mexican coins for him that came in bags of 1000 coins from China. He KNEW there were silver forgeries made in Massachusetts mixed in with these coins. We discussed this on many occasions in the 1960s and he never disputed that fact at all. He was however a pragmatist and made his living selling coins for a profit. He said since there was no way to tell the two types apart that he simply sold all full weight silver 8Rs as real. This was based on their being real silver. Notice he never said they were genuine. When I tried to pin him down to say the word genuine he would only wink.
That has been the attitude since 1930 for most dealers who knew and for the most part this attitude has resulted in very few if any people remembering that these coins ever existed. The attitude was;
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Nothing could be done so why concern yourself.
The Massachusetts operation that my uncle and this dealer were well aware of was a small operation producing anywhere from 3,000 to 30,000 coins a month as needed by the company. That is not too many coins per year. It was also semi-secret and the general populace did not know. The workers generally were not coin people and they felt (based on statements I heard from one actual counterfeiter) that they never believed what they were doing was wrong.
How many other small local operations existed - no one knows. So since there has been no one central source of information for this production discovered (at least as of yet to be discovered) no one knows how many copies were made. We are at the same point today - all we can do is to make an educated guess as to how many of the 10,000,000 to 30,000,000 dollars per year (needed to balance the US trade deficit with China) were Class 2 Carlous dollars. I have never suggested that they all were Carolus knock-offs but that is one possibility. If 10% were knock-off Carolus coins that is still between 1 and 3,000,000 coins per year.
So while the overall impact is unknown, an estimate can be made based on search results. On an average day on
ebay, of the Carolus Dollars posted I typically spot 4-10 that I suspect could be Class 2 based on the photos alone. At coin shows where I can examine these coins the number increases to nearly 20% of all coins I see. Of the 200 or so I have bought over the years, about 70 to 80% are in the end determined to be class 2
post-1870 knock-offs based on a lack of gold or
pre-1870 knock-offs based on low SG. The rest could simply be earlier knock-offs of the correct assay or they could be genuine. The low SG coins are the ones with 80%-86% silver content based on accurate SG tests done with an analytical balance. These are the earliest Class 2 counterfeits (these earlier Class 2 coins often contain gold because they were made pre-1870).
So I expect that more than 10% but likely less than 20% of all Carolus dollars that exist are Class 2. Most of these come from China and some have small chop marks.
The second part of your inquiry is pertinent for a more general discussion:
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It begs the question: If people don't know it is a counterfeit and it is being treated as genuine, is it really a counterfeit?
I would ask should delusion pass for truth? That is like saying if a
TPG slabs a counterfeit does it become genuine? That was a sentiment attributed to Mark Hoffman the infamous Utah forger. He began his career in High School manufacturing 1914 D Lincoln cents. They were good enough to be authenticated at which point he felt his work was somehow justified and he was not doing any harm.
In 1950 the Denver mint made very few 5 cent pieces. An enterprising forger believed to be from Texas recognized these coins would carry a numismatic premium so he made MORE copies of the 1950 D 5 cent coin than the mint made. That was a WELL KNOWN story at one time (ca 1970) and actually held down the price of 1950 D Jeffersons because supply was adequate to meet demand.
Were you aware that over 1/2 of all 1950 D
Jefferson nickels on the market were COUNTERFEITS?
Would you like to know which type your copy is?
The same thing pertains to Carolus Dollars.
Commercial dealers like my old friend who are only in it to make a profit
WILL NOT CARE. People like me will care.
Every collector needs to make their own decision.
However - no coin made outside the mint by a counterfeiter can ever be the genuine thing. Believing otherwise is allowing self delusion to take over.
I am not delusional.
Posted 11/21/2014 09:19 am
