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 Replies: 57 / Views: 6,882 |
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Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts |
Quote:
is Sasanian ancient or medieval? The most commonly used milestone to determine where ancient times end and the middle ages begin is the fall of the Western Roman Empire. This makes the Sasanian Empire starting in ancient times and ending in the middle ages in the eyes of 'Westerners'. Other cultures consider other milestones, if you ask a Persian Historian (s)he would consider the fall of the Sasanid Empire to be the milestone. |
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
That's two of us that agree, hopefully others will weigh in.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
435 Posts |
Taken from Wikipedia: "Ancient history is the aggregate of past events[1] from the beginning of recorded human history to the Early Middle Ages or the Postclassical Era. The span of recorded history is roughly 5,000 years, beginning with Sumerian Cuneiform script, the oldest discovered form of coherent writing from the protoliterate period around the 30th century BC.[2] The term classical antiquity is often used to refer to history in the Old World from the beginning of recorded Greek history in 776 BC (First Olympiad). This roughly coincides with the traditional date of the founding of Rome in 753 BC, the beginning of the history of ancient Rome, and the beginning of the Archaic period in Ancient Greece. Although the ending date of ancient history is disputed, some Western scholars use the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 AD (the most used),  [4] the closure of the Platonic Academy in 529 AD,[5] the death of the emperor Justinian I in 565 AD,[6] the coming of Islam[7] or the rise of Charlemagne as the end of ancient and Classical European history. In India, ancient history includes the early period of the Middle Kingdoms,[9][10][11] and, in China, the time up to the Qin Dynasty.[12][13]" However my personal view is that such boxes are entirely artificial and unnecessary constructs that bear no relation to the true experience of peoples living at those times. There were few occasions in human history punctuated by clearly defined shifts that affected all societies. Societies evolve disjointedly and regress is almost as common as progress. I think we like to see the human family as moving smoothly and inexorably up a ladder, each rung more civilised than the previous one. This is an illusion, but this is why we create words like Ancient and Medieval. As an arguing point, I would suggest that they cloud the truth rather than reveal it. Edited by Valecrucis
11/22/2014 6:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
Hey, hey guys! Thanks for all the kind words that have been passed here about me and the beloved Persian coins. I would not consider myself an expert in Sassanian coins but I do dabble. I suggest purchasing Robert Gobl's Sassanian Numismatics. Its a GREAT book. I have enjoyed reading many times. Its not without its problems but its one of the best our there for "breaking it down." I got my copy for $25 a while back off Amazon. You ask about mints. Like Roman coins, coins were produced initially from a small number of mints in the Sassanian case, mainly in Iraq, in later times Sassanian coinage was made from an unscrupulous amount of mints. Some had a history of producing coins of horrendous quality and execution, while others did nothing but produce the best of its kind. So if you have a coin of poor quality workshop and its nice and minty and complete, it MIGHT add a little bit to the value. I don't really collect by mint. I could spend the rest of my life acquiring the coins of Khusro II if that were the case. A rare mint is Alexandria, Egypt. This mint was briefly held by the Persians in the early 7th century. The coins produced during the occupation look like 7th century Byzantine coins.  If your looking for scarce mints by mintage numbers for a particular ruler, then good luck. As Gobl states the Sassanian coins were long in the hands of privet collectors by the time scientists knew they existed.As a result valuable hoard and archaeological information is lost to us. Rare coins are basically coins, of rulers who only ruled for a short time, and thus produced less coins. Many of these rulers you have never heard of and would have trouble remembering if you just read about them. An uninteresting reference to a foot note in history. Rare coins are gold coins. Sassanian gold coins look the nearly identical to silver issues and were only made by a few Shahs. Sassanian coins can be rare by type. Front facing coins, family portraits, child portraits and imperial bronze coins. Over struck Roman denarii and the like. I hope I was able to help you out a bit. OH and for the record. The House of Sasan is ANCIENT. If you notice the Ardashir I posted is dated to the early third century, but the house of Sasan wanted to restore the Persia of Cyrus the Great. They did not think of them selves as "Sassanians" and no one called them that in antiquity, they ere Persians who took back Persia from the Vassal Parthia. The Romans refereed to all Persians as Parthians, confusing eh? Edited by Ancientnoob
11/22/2014 6:48 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1118 Posts |
Interesting and insightful post, Valecrucis. Personally when I say ancient I mean pre-Islam. It may not be correct but for my personal vernacular that is how I use it.
The problem is Ancient Rome was miles a ahead of, sat, North America (not to come of as ethnocentric) so I see how it can be tricky to draw a clear cut line.
Hopefully Ancientnoob will be posting on here soon, I can't wait to see what he can comment on my new numismatic endever.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1118 Posts |
Hahaha, ya. I can't wait to dive in! I will have yo find a way to raise some funds for the book, library cut my hours HARD!
As a rule ancientnoob are Persian coins, specificly Sasanian ,faked a lot or is the fake game reserved for American, Roman and bullion?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5155 Posts |
These coins are faked. Gobl shows a page of about 2 dozen or so IMHO obvious fakes. I have seen only one thats not in the book and almost bought it because it was a fake. In this part of the world it seems that they are not widely faked like the latter you listed. You should be able to shop with confidence in the locations mentioned above.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
435 Posts |
When you describe using the word Ancient, Harmonica, in the personal vernacular, I think you put your finger on the truth. It is perfectly OK to use any of these terms for the sake of convenience, but no one should make the mistake of thinking they actually mean anything real in an absolute sense. Instead they are only relevant if the limited context to which they are applied is understood.
A variety of defining characteristics of what Ancient or Medieval means may be chosen, depending on local circumstances; no one should speak of the shift from one to the next as though it applies everywhere; what should also be remembered is that progress is rarely linear or applying to all aspects of a society simultaneously, so whenever a moment to define a shift is selected, it is mostly for the sake of convenience.
The bottom line is that the use of these terms is for the sake of convenience. One shouldn't use them as though they are actually real things.
In regard to this part of the world I would agree with you. The most convenient defining characteristic of the beginning of the Medieval era would be the rise of Islam.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1118 Posts |
I seen the busts throught out the ages in my pre posting searching and it was a great read. If I don't post much in here for a wee bit it is not because I lost interest, it is because I am raising money for a coin and book. Thank you guys all so much. If you guys ever have question about Atlantic Canadian coinage maybe I could return the favor.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1118 Posts |
Hey guys, I had a pillar of the community message me offering me a King Khurso II drachm with the mint mark "AM".
I assume he means " AHM" with would put the coin in modern day Iran (Hamadan).
It is VF so the crown has lost some details but the alter and script is all there.
Let's say he offered to sell it for $45, would I be out of line to offer $40? I always try to get a better deal but I feel like he is treating me fair and not taking advantage of my ignorance.
A nice example of a drachm, some websites and me tracking down a reference book sounds like a nice way to spend the Christmas season.
Thank you all in advance.
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Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts |
Here is the AM mintmark:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmolBtw, I do understand the urge to haggle - in the end it depends how much you consider the coin to be worth to you. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
Between CCF members I'd pay the extra $5; its an amount that wouldn't break the bank for me. It would probably be for shipping anyways.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1118 Posts |
That is what I thought, thank you so much!
The Beast's website doesn't list the AM mint mark, weird. [UMM]
I will roll up my change, go to the bank and tell him the money will be sent by the end of the week!
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Pillar of the Community
3772 Posts |
Quote:
The Beast's website doesn't list the AM mint mark, weird D.Sellwood's et al "An Introduction to Sasanian Coins' lists 60 different mintmarks from 44 (including one unknown) mints. Don't forget that many areas of ancient coins are still 'work in progress' as far as research goes. The Beast's website indicates that the information provided is from a 1971 book of less than 100 pages. The mentioned book from Sellwood et al is from 1985 and roughly double the size. Sellwood has in the meantime issued a grand opus on Sasanian coins, but I haven't had the chance to look into a copy of it yet. |
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Posted 11/22/2014 6:09 pm
