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Steel Coinage

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n9jig's Avatar
United States
996 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2015  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Steel makes sense if the coins cost less with it and can still be functional. The clad composition used for the current dime, quarter and half is cheap enough to remain feasible for these coins. AFAIK the different clad composition used on the dollar coins is also feasible.

It is just the nickel and penny that are an issue. As said before, the penny is not a feasible coin in any material as it costs more to produce and use it even if the material was free. The nickel is getting there too.

I wouldn't have a problem with coins of steel but it really just doesn't make sense right now. The coins above 10 cents are fine for now, the coins below that should just be eliminated. If there were to be some sort of radical change to the coinage system, such as a total re-imagining, re-valuing or something then a wholesale composition change would be appropriate.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2015  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
While obviously the idea of fractional currency makes even less cents than the penny these days, the era of fractional coins is coming quickly to an end.
While this is true, I need to point out that just carl should be known for his sarcasm.


Quote:
As said before, the penny is not a feasible coin in any material as it costs more to produce and use it even if the material was free. The nickel is getting there too.
Again, quoted for truth.


Quote:
I wouldn't have a problem with coins of steel but it really just doesn't make sense right now. The coins above 10 cents are fine for now, the coins below that should just be eliminated. If there were to be some sort of radical change to the coinage system, such as a total re-imagining, re-valuing or something then a wholesale composition change would be appropriate.
I agree. At this point I feel the cost is a wash and the only benefit is to the steel lobby.
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n9jig's Avatar
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996 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2015  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jbuck postulates:
Quote:
While this is true, I need to point out that just carl should be known for his sarcasm.


Hence my comment that it makes no cents, pun intended.
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Hollywood's Avatar
United States
1228 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2015  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hollywood to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:
SAVE Act Seeks to Prohibit Non-Cost Effective Coins
February 13, 2015 By Michael Zielinski

A bill introduced in the House of Representatives which seeks to provide for savings, accountability, value, and efficiency in government spending would have significant and potentially unintended consequences for coins.

The bill H.R. 614 known as the SAVE Act was introduced by Rep. Patrick Murphy of Florida on January 28, 2015. A similar bill had been introduced in the 113th Congress and gained 21 cosponsors, but failed to become law.

The current bill is 60 pages in length and contains a large number of provisions intended to cut wasteful spending and improve government efficiency. Rep. Murphy stated in a press release, "The SAVE Act would cut $479 billion in government waste through common-sense provisions that have garnered bipartisan support."

Among these provisions is Sec 208 of the bill which prohibits the non-cost effective minting and printing of coins and currency. With regards to coins, the bill would amend Section 5111 of title 31, United States Code by adding at the end the following:
"

(e) Prohibition on Certain Minting- Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, the Secretary may not mint or issue any coin that costs more to produce than the denomination of the coin (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping).

The United States Mint currently produces two circulating coins which cost more to produce and distribute than their respective denominations. Based on the figures from the 2013 fiscal year, the cost to produce and distribute the cent was 1.66 cents and the cost for the nickel was 8.09 cents. All other circulating coins are produced and distributed at a cost less than their respective denominations. Accordingly, if the bill were to become law, the Secretary of the Treasury would be prohibited from minting and issuing cents and nickels.

Notably, the text of the bill does not qualify the prohibition to circulating coins, which may give rise to unintended consequences for bullion and numismatic coins produced by the United States Mint.

The Mint currently produces five bullion coin series across three precious metals. These include the American Gold Eagle, American Silver Eagle, American Platinum Eagle, American Gold Buffalo, and the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Bullion Coins. In all cases, the bullion coins have nominal denominations assigned which are far below the intrinsic value and market selling prices of the coins.

Unlike the circulating coins, the US Mint does not issue the bullion coins at their nominal denominations. Rather they are sold to distributors based on the market value of the precious metal content plus a mark up which covers the Mint's costs and provides for a small profit margin. As such, the denomination of these coins has no bearing on whether or not their production is cost effective.

Similarly, the Mint produces numerous commemorative coins and other numismatic products with production costs greater than their denominations. Once again, the denominations have no correlation to the cost effectiveness of the products since their are sold at fixed prices which cover all costs and include a profit margin.

Based on the current text of the bill, the SAVE Act would seem to prohibit the production of bullion and certain numismatic coins since their production costs exceed their denominations. Coin Update raised these issues when a similar bill had been introduced in the 113th Congress. Ultimately, the previous bill did not become law, but the reintroduced the bill contains the same troubling provision.


http://news.coinupdate.com/save-act...-coins-4684/


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NickelCollector's Avatar
United States
212 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2015  08:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NickelCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why do you even talk about the bullion coins? Do some people seriously use them for face value?
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2015  11:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Hence my comment that it makes no cents, pun intended.
Totally missed it!

I am going to have to keep my eye one you.


Quote:
Notably, the text of the bill does not qualify the prohibition to circulating coins, which may give rise to unintended consequences for bullion and numismatic coins produced by the United States Mint.
Even though they have a face value, they cannot leave the mint without being bought for their premium. However, it states denomination, not MSRP, so they probably need to fix it before voting.


By the way, we have a dedicated topic here...

https://goccf.com/t/198123
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Foxwoods Man's Avatar
United States
4901 Posts
 Posted 02/16/2015  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Foxwoods Man to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why do you even talk about the bullion coins? Do some people seriously use them for face value?


If you read the legislation it says no coin (with a face value) can be minted if it costs more than its face value to produce it. An ASE has a value of one dollar and it obviously costs more than that to mint it so it would be eliminated...along with all other precious metal products

Obviously no one uses them at face value and that's why the bill got nowhere previously...and the same reason it will get nowhere again. It does NOT differentiate between coins for circulation and collector/investor coins which are sold at a profit.
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