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1980 LMC Rim To Rim Crack?

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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2015  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, the new images are clearer. There is plainly break displacement and metal filling that displacement in the fields. I can see more of that in the head now as well. The thing that got to me is, if there's detail displaced something has to fill the space that detail moved away from and I couldn't see any fill in the head area.

Although - as has been mentioned - circulation has obscured proof that the break reaches the rim, it's reasonable to assume it does so if the break can be observed to be widening as it approaches the rim at both ends. It's clearly so at the right end on this coin, less-so on the left, but judging from the displacement I kinda doubt that section of the die was connected to the rest by the time this coin was struck.
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koinpro's Avatar
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 Posted 08/29/2015  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add koinpro to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SsuperDdave,

Where are the new images? I could not find them. Anyway, if you look at my images a couple posts up you will see how easily there can be be both horizontal and vertical displacement and the portion of the die within the cracks still be fully attached to the main body of the die.

The bottom line is that few so-called Retailed Cuds actually have full blown Cuds known for them. It then reasons, that most so-called Retained Cud listings really aren't for Retailed Cuds by current definition.

A better term for these unprovable so-called Retained Cuds has been around for some time - "Pre-Cud Die Break."
Edited by koinpro
08/29/2015 12:35 pm
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 Posted 08/29/2015  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First of all I want everyone to know I truly appreciate your time and thoughts on this coin. To answer a few questions, Slamnbass, I'm not sure which is horizontal and vertical displacement, I assume vertical is when the coin is laying flat and part of it is higher, and horizontal is how far apart the break is. In either case, I will check the U as well as the entire coin both ways. If I see something, I will post it. As far as BJ goes, I filled out the contact page on his site, but never heard back from him.
Blue, I will check the gray areas, anything noted will be posted.
Drew, you nailed it!
Barring further developments, I will label this one (in pencil) a Pre-Cud Die Break. Very informative indeed. Thanks all very much.
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 Posted 08/30/2015  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After reviewing the first pics more than twice, my eye/gut was telling me Retained Cud, because of the rim to rim die crack.

After reviewing the points of die crack rim to rim, but still not completely fractured down the die also being that it is the hammer die and the gravity theory should apply makes one think other wise.

I have to go with a politician mentality and say "who am I to say this strike of this coin was not the final blow that busted this die into a full blown Cud? If so its retained, if not its not". Thanks, Doug.
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 Posted 08/30/2015  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Where are the new images? I could not find them


I was referring to BlueSolo's blowups, which were a great help for my visualization. Your die is a pretty clear illustration of the process and leaves little to the imagination. It leaves me wondering what and where metal compresses in order to leave that gap; the only way a gap appears is if the same amount of metal now fills a smaller space. Perhaps vertical displacement provides that extra space.
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 Posted 08/30/2015  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BlueSolo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with KoinPro though. Since it is the hammer die gravity should have taken the chunk of the die. Otherwise this chunk is still attached to the die as in KoinPro's photos meaning by definition the crack is pre-cud not Retained Cud.
If it were the anvil die however, I am assuming the collar keeps the chunk of the die in place after it has fully detached from the die, which would mean the potential for a Retained Cud.
Edited by BlueSolo
08/30/2015 3:25 pm
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