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 Replies: 13 / Views: 3,264 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
709 Posts |
Guys, I need help figuring something out. Went to the FUN show in Florida this month, first coin show for me, and it was a blast. Sent some coins off with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. Can't wait to get em back. Then I had some time to kill so I decided to see if there was anything good to buy. Maybe I've made a mistake, perusing ebay for the past three years or so, getting used to the going rate for cents there. I was pretty shocked at the prices at the show. "Do people actually pay these prices?", I thought. Let's take some examples. 1909-S IHC commonly sells for $400-$500 on ebay. Even slabbed. I think that's a fair deal. Can you find that deal at a coin show? Absolutely not. $600-$700 starting price for mid-grade F to VF. I won't name any sellers, but I visited one of the popular cents dealers thinking surely there will be fair prices here. They had both raw and slabbed. They have a price guide online for their raw coins, why is it the same as PCGS-slabbed prices of the same grade?! Like, who wants to pay $80 for a raw VF 1864 CN IHC? Liberty is kinda fuzzy. I see a coin like this sell on ebay regularly for maybe, half that price. I'm under the impression that RAW UNC common date IHCs like 1906 and 1907 are able to be had for under $50. They are literally everywhere. I think under $50 is a good deal. I was discouraged to only find them at around $80 a piece. They were also not gem, far from perfect and potential sliders (maybe I can get a good deal on sliders I thought) often had lots of hits or a problem of some kind. There are endless examples I could put forth. I know price guides should not be taken as the bible. I know that dealers have to make money, and some have a reputation so they can charge more. But, aren't buyers supposed to get "good deals" at these shows? Even the "bargain price" section of the show was filled with horrible low-grade problem IHCs that were still outrageous prices. Would you like to pay $12 for this here corroded, dented 1859 IHC? Please tell me that I'm wrong, that there are good deals out there. I didn't see appeal as a buyer. What am I missing? Are my rough pricings way off? Do people just accept the fact that they will pay high retail prices for everything? **Note that I can't really form an opinion on slabbed coin prices. They are generally too expensive for me so I look at raw stuff. I also like raw coins for my albums and like to handle them safely from time to time. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
I think at coin shows, prices are set high but there's sometimes room for negotiation. I do occasionally see stuff that's a good deal as marked, but that's kind of the exception in my experience. If I see something I like but that I think is priced high, my patented line is "do you have any room on that"? I tend to like that better than "what's your best price on that?" although I have gone with that one on occasion as well.
I am not really a negotiator at heart so I prefer auctions where the market sets the price, but do occasionally visit dealers and coin shows as well.
Edited by KenKat
01/21/2016 08:41 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Used to encounter this when I was big into vintage sports cards, I had a great local shop but also went to the big shows (The National, etc.) and it was amazing that, say, a card that I could get for $50 at my shop was selling for $80 at the show. I'll be going to my first coin show in 10+ years this March ( ANA in Dallas) and we'll see what happens there. My approach in general, though, is to know what I want, know what I'm willing to pay for it, and make that offer when I find the right coin. The worst that can happen is the seller says "no thanks" and I move on. Most dealers, though, will negotiate somewhat. For instance, if I wanted a certain Morgan dollar, and I was prepared to pay $200 for it, and I found that one in a dealer's case for $230, I'd offer $175 and odds are the dealer would counter with 200, win-win situation for both of us. If I were just browsing for raw coins, I'd mostly be cherrypicking VAMs and EAC varieties, since those are two of my main interests. Even if 90% of the raw coins are overpriced, there's always a chance I can find that one rare VAM or Newcomb variety and score a bargain. I assume most coin dealers are like card dealers were for me in the old days: be nice, be professional, be polite, and be respectful of their time, and they'll work with you and negotiate with you, unless you're being unreasonable. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7390 Posts |
Best deals are from dealers who don't specialize in what your looking for. Plus being a people person with the ability to make a connection with a dealer in a 5min talk only helps negotiations
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Pillar of the Community
United States
558 Posts |
"being a people person with the ability to make a connection with a dealer in a 5min talk only helps negotiations".....
Being a people person with the ability to make a connection with anyone, especially someone whom you want to do business with in a 5min talk only helps in negotiating all things in life. Except death. You cannot negotiate that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
650 Posts |
The coin shows I go range from bargains to overpriced coins. Sure, they put a high price on their prime display items hoping a fool and his money are soon parted. You have to do some shopping. Most dealers will negotiate with you if you catch them without customers. I don't try to low ball dealers because that tends to annoy them. I generally have a pocket notebook I pull out to refer to prices of the coins I want in the grades I'm interested in. This shows them I've done my homework. I make an offer, they will decline, accept, or make a counter offer. If they won't budge on price, I politely say I'm going to look around a bit more. You probably won't land a deal of a lifetime, but I have gotten many nice coins for a decent price at coin shows.
Edited by batboy
01/20/2016 10:35 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Next time try a local coin show. I have had great success with the ones in my area. and negotiating prices with the dealer is a must until both you and him are comfortable with the final price. If you can't feel comfortable with what you have to pay for a coin then move on to the next table. you might have to do this quite a few times ,but when you find the coin that excites you at or below your expected cost, then pull the trigger.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4416 Posts |
IMHO, coin shows are THE best venue for buying coins. Of course, there are dealers who tend to price coins on the high side and/or over-grade. The price marked on a coin is almost always negotiable at shows. Even those dealers who net price their coins may negotiate at times. The FUN Show has long been one of my favorites. One dealer there sold me some pieces at about half of the prices marked on the holders. If a collector goes into a show with what I'd call a "super-market mentality," he will pay more for coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
500 Posts |
I reside in Florida and did not this year but in the past have attended the FUN show. Where I live we have 4 coin shows a year within reasonable travel time so I usually make 3 of the 4. There is a particular long time dealer I frequent and do most of my business with. I asked him a couple years back if he set up at the FUN show and here is a direct quote. "The tables are so expensive there I would have to mark up my inventory another 30% to cover the additional cost."
So he just sets of at local shows in the state. Maybe why the prices you observed are a bit high? Also, he always has some "wiggle room" in what his inventory is marked. And as a frequent buyer he cuts me some extra slack.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Agreed 100% that prices, especially at shows, tend to have negotiation room built into that "high price" and with some friendly chit chat, they will often come down.
For the FUN show, this show is attended by thousands over the final two days who just received their Christmas/Hanukah/end of year bonuses and came with cash looking to spend money. Of course the dealers are going to try to get a little extra. That being said, I've found the selection at the FUN show to be my best of the year I usually get a few deals I am thrilled with.
I was at the Ft Myers show this past weekend. While the dealers were complaining about how slow sales were, (some even closing by noon for a one day show!) they were incredibly unwilling to budge I their listed prices. Not sure what going on. I did complete a trade for an error cent with one of the more chatty dealers. I attempted another trade for coin I would have LOVED and offered up what I felt was a rather fair trade value, but was countered with terms that made 0 sense, so I politely moved on.
Anyhoo, long term experience has taught me that with patience and friendliness, I'll eventually find the coin and deal I'm happy with.
Edited by Collects82
01/21/2016 12:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
1153 Posts |
some dealers are better at negotiating as the day is about to end. The less they load back into the truck the better.
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Valued Member
United States
311 Posts |
I went to my first coin show last Sunday. I couldn't believe some of the prices. Some coins were double the book price. I ended up picking up a stone mountain half in really good shape for 50$ but other then that I couldn't find anything I thought was a good deal.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
You have to remember that the larger the show, and longer is last, has a lot to do with coin prices. A very large show that is in a popular place and lasts for several days, increases the costs for dealers. At some of these shows a table rental could be in the thousands of dollars. They have to pay for a place to stay, food, transportation, laundry, etc. And if they bring another family member, again the costs for them goes up. All their expenses come from the sale of coins. The more the dealers have to pay out, the higher the prices of their coins.
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
I buy 90% of my coins from ebay for the intention of flipping and my personal collection. If I were a full time dealer doing shows all over the country, I told my wife the only way would hit the lottery or split the cost of a space/table. Not worth it for me. I'll stick to ecrater and ebay to sell. I've dealt at the FUN show before..it is a blast. swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 13 / Views: 3,264 |
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Posted 01/20/2016 8:53 pm
