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 Replies: 51 / Views: 8,392 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
2360 Posts |
Edited by SilverDon
05/01/2016 02:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3049 Posts |
mmmm I want it for sooo many reasons!!
Cool coin!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4227 Posts |
Nice. It circulated? Was there a price on it?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5255 Posts |
I assume that PCGS meant gold "flan" or perhaps "planchet". This seems a bit sloppy. I hope that the weight is correct.
I am curious as to what coin the planchet was supposed to be made into. Canada did not strike gold coins after 1967 until the 1976 Olympic ones, so it is not like there were planchets kicking around for several years. Also, these gold coins did not have the diameter of the nickel dollar.
Edited by oriole
04/30/2016 5:29 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
This is the infamous Manitoba gold piece that rogue RCM employees got charged and sentenced to prison over this production, an example has been seized, kind of an iffy error to own due to the court trial. |
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Sandy Campbell had two of them in his case at Nuphilex in Montreal. MS-63 was the nicest of the two. Mike Byers has had them in MS-62 and MS-64 for sale in his ebay store... for outrageous money. There is also a 1970 struck on a silver planchet out there as well... This is probably the only off-metal nickel dollar strike I will never own - due to the legality of the piece (as john100 mentioned). "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5404 Posts |
Back door jobs and a blight on numismatics for those who are purists. The Silver Dollar SPP refers to is definitely out there. Had one in a collection we appraised for a prominent collectors estate years ago .......source the unlocked back door of the Ottawa mint in a paint can along with a few other spurious Gems via a couple of well placed Vancouver coin dealers in the 1970s.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Just to add, was offered an ms63 version of this coin back in 2013 Torex, a beauty of a coin to see in hand, offered for around 18,000.00, but politely refused due to it's legal problems.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2428 Posts |
I have serious doubt that the Mint or any Authority for that matter would pursue the issue of a Canadian resident owning this coin.
The possibility may be there however again, I doubt any action would be taken.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The reasons for judgement by the trial judge the crown, by the request of the RCM asked the judge to say these coins belong to the RCM for obvious reasons as such has a court order making them subject to seizure at any moment. A unit has been seized at a large US auction years ago, this is a coin you can only show to close friends or you risks losing it at the whim of a RCM personal. I know of two units recently sold for between 17000 to 20000 so it's quite a risk to have the coin in public and risk seizure. |
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New Member
Canada
34 Posts |
The RCM has generally not been very forthcoming over the years with respect to their position on these issues. However, if you put together the bits and pieces, their position seems to be that error coins are either quality issues or counterfeits. The 1970 dollar in gold wouldn'f seem to be a quality issue. Accordingly, it would be classed a counterfeit by the RCM and not offically released, therefore stolen property. As a counterfeit (by RCM reasoning) and stolen property, it would be subject to potential seizure. Some examples: 1980 - 1970 $1 gold Mannitoba seized, at request of RCMP, in Cincinnati, Ohio 1981 - 50 cent/$1 dollar mule seized, at request of RCMP, at ANA convention in Milwakee 1988 - 50 cent/$1 dollar mule seized prior to Torex auction 1989 - 2 or 3 diving goose $1 seized from J&M Coin (returned in 1980) 2000 - 15 or 20 Natural Legacy 25 cents struck in copper seized and Winnipeg mint employee arrested. Nothing comes to mind since 2000. Maybe with all their other issues like missing inventory and stolen gold and coin shipments they don't need more headaches and bad publicity, but you never know for sure. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2428 Posts |
Thanks for the info john100 and RidgeWest.
I believe that only a current scandal at the Mint would cause such an action as seizure of coins.
The mint or any authority are not looking for back door jobs of any type from 10 years back plus.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Tid bit of info on the largest created coins the 67 dollars, 50 cents, the RCM took on the wrong dealer, namely JM who has all kinds of resources to fight this issue, at trial he could prove a lot of these 67 double strucks were found at bank outlets across Canada, so they became legal and a catalogued error to boot. To any error collector because of the vast numbers of 67 dollars, it's almost a certianity they were custom made but still cool to see, the RCM seems to take a harsher view of off gold planchet errors. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Interesting, this 1970 gold Manitoba dollar.
What strikes me as unusual is PCGS certification of it, doesn't that holder proves legitimacy in accordance with their guarantee?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
If I recall the story right with regards to the Manitoba gold coin, either the Pitman or Remicks owned most of the units that's why PCGS probably slabbed them.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Okay, thanks John. I'm just thinking the scenario seems rather complicated. If RCM ever chose to seize considering PCGS's certification of same, then PCGS may be liable. I can imagine a good lawyer arguing that even one gold Manitoba coin certified renders all to be legitimate. And would RCM want to risk intentionally alienating PCGS? ......most likely not. |
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Replies: 51 / Views: 8,392 |
Posted 04/30/2016 5:14 pm
