Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsRoyal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

My Roosevelt Dime Has No Face.

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 10,843Next Topic  
New Member
HappyGilmore's Avatar
United States
45 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2016  7:34 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add HappyGilmore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Its a 1969 Roosevelt dime from what can be seen in the pictures

First off ...Ive had this exact dime looked at by online experts and they say its worth silver because it looks like someone took a grinder to it....I see copper so whats the silver value in a 1969 dime?

Now heres the deal...I went to an amateur numismatist and he blew up the dime back first and saw obvious doubling in the bumpy leaf tree stems and the smooth left side leaves[forgot the names,lol]..The smooth side stem is way longer so is the flame on the torch...its cooking the ES.....

Then he flipped it over face side and what he noticed was this after weighing it in on the scale which read exactly dime weight ....This was no work of a vandal...

He jumps up and grabs his phone and shot me this link to clarify what this dime may be...Which is.....

An error dime that didnt conform to mint standards and was stripped of the LIBERTY badge aswell as the face and date code...Then its either sent back for restamping or melted down..

Heres the link he sent me....

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5113

There are other errors he pointed out like the strange shape in the chin that looks like a crack plus the shadow of a squintier face with a different shaped nose n mouth shadowed between Roosevelts nostril and his chin..

My-Roosevelt-Dime-Has-No-Face.

My-Roosevelt-Dime-Has-No-Face.

My-Roosevelt-Dime-Has-No-Face.

Could the amateur numismatist be right?

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by HappyGilmore
07/27/2016 9:14 pm
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34418 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2016  7:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
whats the silver value in a 1969 dime
Exactly $0.00--silver in US dimes ended in 1964.

Also, welcome to CCF!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
07/27/2016 7:41 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2016  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nope. It's a clad dime (zero silver) that somebody took a grinder to.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Pillar of the Community
Saruma's Avatar
United States
968 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2016  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome!

If they were online experts then I can only assume they thought that last digit was a 0,1,2,3, or 4, because one of the very first things everyone learns early on in their coin collecting career is that 1964 was the last year circulation (as opposed to collector issues) coins were made of silver, except the Kennedy half dollar. In other words, if they knew it was a 1969 and said it was silver they know nothing about US coins. I think the deformities you mention are an artifact of the grinding process. Grinding not only removes metal but it can push it around a bit too.

Whether your theory is correct or some random person did it, someone put a grinder to it. If you could somehow prove the mint did it the coin might have a small premium as an oddity, but maybe a dollar or two at most if you found the right person which won't be easy.
New Member
HappyGilmore's Avatar
United States
45 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2016  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HappyGilmore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks alot for the Welcome....!

Throughout my years I always took the odd looking change and put them in a jar.....One day the jar became 5 and were very heavy so one day I seperated all the nickels dimes quarters and pennies not actually knowing if I had collected actually anything odd and of value..LOL

One day my friend James asks me if I had any 1970s quarters...Then tells me why....

This got me to thinking if it could be true with other denominations of US currency so I did research and got bombed on by online experts who almost made me chuck those suckers in the lake......LOL....

Theres supposed to be a log of this with the Utah division....If I can get rock solid proof that this dime is what its thought to be..This thing could be worth alot more than a thin dime...LOL

In my experiences with power tools...Grinders swirl 360 degrees....That would leave a swirlish looking grinding..

Across the middle of his face its kind of raised up into a small peak and the grind lines are relatively straight...

The only tool I see doing the handiwork is a mini belt sander or circular grinding stone.....Alls I gotta find out is how the mint defaced the coins.........

Once again Thanks for the Welcome....Im stoked to be here..
Edited by HappyGilmore
07/27/2016 9:54 pm
Pillar of the Community
kanga's Avatar
United States
5825 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  08:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like it was in the middle of a Star Trek transporter action.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
BStrauss3's Avatar
United States
4593 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They didn't (deface errors) until June 2003 when they started using the waffle canceller. Before that they just sent them off as scrap to be melted and refined.

In the earlier days when the mint did it's own making of planchets they just dumped it back into the melt pot.
-----Burton
50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club
Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
Pillar of the Community
scstrawn's Avatar
United States
536 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add scstrawn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it was on the grinder's edge, there would be no swirls, only if it was on the face of the grinder.

However, the important question to ask is, "How could this happen at the mint?" If there is no way any of their processing could have caused it, it is likely to be done after the coin enters circulation.

When the mint discovers coins that are not up to standard, they send them through the Waffler.
http://www.coinnews.net/2008/11/13/...-found-4518/

The weight variance for dimes is enough that if it was a bit on the heavy end of the range, that even after grinding it could still be at the "right" weight. (They don't weigh every coin in a batch, just some samples.)
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Just a messed up coin done by someone.
Valued Member
United States
64 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stormdog123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like it was dropped in a parking lot or road and went for a ride with the snowplow.
New Member
HappyGilmore's Avatar
United States
45 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HappyGilmore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thats nice about the waffler theory....The people spotting the errors arent perfect either...LOL

One day the mint will use robotic scanners like the ones I built back in 2000 for a company called Robotic Vision Systems in Hauppaugue NY to sell to Motorola....

The 200 machines did the job of 3500 people and put 3500 Motorola Employees out of work unfortunately but it was 100% accurate in spotting error IC chips then removing them and destroying them ..The good ones were wrapped up in ESD wrapping and tagged.LOL

This was back in 2000!...Youd think the mint would change its standards so errors were at an alltime minimum like shock sensors to monitor dies so when stress is detected a new die could be instantly switched in..IDK if I can come up with cost saving solutions down the road IDK what else to say....LOL

Anyways heres the guide as to how US coins were handled way prior to the waffler.. .LOL...The law was first enacted in 1890....Where was the waffler then?...Only pennies got the waffler starting in the 50's or the 60's I beleive according to my research

(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may mint and issue only the following coins:
(1) a dollar coin that is 1.043 inches in diameter.
(2) a half dollar coin that is 1.205 inches in diameter and weighs 11.34 grams.
(3) a quarter dollar coin that is 0.955 inch in diameter and weighs 5.67 grams.
(4) a dime coin that is 0.705 inch in diameter and weighs 2.268 grams.
(5) a 5-cent coin that is 0.835 inch in diameter and weighs 5 grams.
(6) except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, a one-cent coin that is 0.75 inch in diameter and weighs 3.11 grams.
(7) A fifty dollar gold coin that is 32.7 millimeters in diameter, weighs 33.931 grams, and contains one troy ounce of fine gold.
(8) A twenty-five dollar gold coin that is 27.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 16.966 grams, and contains one-half troy ounce of fine gold.
(9) A ten dollar gold coin that is 22.0 millimeters in diameter, weighs 8.483 grams, and contains one-fourth troy ounce of fine gold.
(10) A five dollar gold coin that is 16.5 millimeters in diameter, weighs 3.393 grams, and contains one-tenth troy ounce of fine gold.
(11) A $50 gold coin that is of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, weighs 1 ounce, and contains 99.99 percent pure gold.
(12) A $25 coin of an appropriate size and thickness, as determined by the Secretary, that weighs 1 troy ounce and contains .9995 fine palladium.

(b) The half dollar, quarter dollar, and dime coins are clad coins with 3 layers of metal. The 2 identical outer layers are an alloy of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel. The inner layer is copper. The outer layers are metallurgically bonded to the inner layer and weigh at least 30 percent of the weight of the coin. The dollar coin shall be golden in color, have a distinctive edge, have tactile and visual features that make the denomination of the coin readily discernible, be minted and fabricated in the United States, and have similar metallic, anti-counterfeiting properties as United States coinage in circulation on the date of enactment of the United States $1 Coin Act of 1997. The 5-cent coin is an alloy of 75 percent copper and 25 percent nickel. In minting 5-cent coins, the Secretary shall use bars that vary not more than 2.5 percent from the percent of nickel required. Except as provided under subsection (c) of this section, the one-cent coin is an alloy of 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc. In minting gold coins, the Secretary shall use alloys that vary not more than 0.1 percent from the percent of gold required. The specifications for alloys are by weight.
(c) The Secretary may prescribe the weight and the composition of copper and zinc in the alloy of the one-cent coin that the Secretary decides are appropriate when the Secretary decides that a different weight and alloy of copper and zinc are necessary to ensure an adequate supply of one-cent coins to meet the needs of the United States.

U.S. Code › Title 31 › Subtitle IV › Chapter 51 › Subchapter II › § 5113
31 U.S. Code § 5113 - Tolerances and testing of coins

(a) The Secretary of the Treasury may prescribe reasonable manufacturing tolerances for specifications in section 5112 of this title (except for specifications that are limits) for the dollar, half dollar, quarter dollar, and dime coins. The weight of the 5-cent coin may vary not more than 0.194 gram. The weight of the one-cent coin may vary not more than 0.13 gram. Any gold coin issued under section 5112 of this title shall contain the full weight of gold stated on the coin.
(b) The Secretary shall keep a record of the kind, number, and weight of each group of coins minted and test a number of the coins separately to determine if the coins conform to the weight specified in section 5112(a) of this title. If the coins tested do not conform, the Secretary—
(1) shall weigh each coin of the group separately and deface the coins that do not conform and cast them into bars for reminting; or
(2) may remelt the group of coins.

Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
US Code
Notes
Historical and Revision Notes
Revised Section
Source (U.S. Code)
Source (Statutes at Large)
5113(a)
31:350.
R.S. § 3537; Sept. 26, 1890, ch. 945, § 1, 26 Stat. 485.
#8192;
31:398(5).
July 23, 1965, Pub. L. 89-81, § 108(5), 79 Stat. 255.
5113(b)
31:351.
R.S. § 3538; Aug. 23, 1912, ch. 350, § 1(last par. words before 7th comma under heading "Assay Office at Salt Lake City, Utah"), 37 Stat. 384.
In subsection (a), the words "for the dollar, half dollar, quarter dollar, and dime coins" are added because of the restatement. The words "0.194 gram" are substituted for "three grains", and the words "0.13 gram" are substituted for "two grains", for consistency in the revised chapter.

In subsection (b), before clause (1), the words "Secretary shall keep a record of the kind, number, and weight of each group of coins minted" are substituted for 31:351(1st sentence) because of the source provisions restated in section 321(c) of the revised title. In clause (1), the words "deface the coins that do not conform and cast them into bars for reminting" are substituted for "shall be defaced and delivered to the superintendent of melting and refining department as standard bullion, to be again formed into ingots and recoined" for consistency in the revised chapter and to eliminate unnecessary words. In clause (2), the words "if more convenient" are omitted as surplus.
Amendments
1988—Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 100-274 inserted at end "Any gold coin issued under section 5112 of this title shall contain the full weight of gold stated on the coin."


LII has no control over and does not endorse any external Internet site that contains links to or references LII.
Edited by HappyGilmore
07/28/2016 2:33 pm
Pillar of the Community
MeadowviewCollector's Avatar
United States
4409 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2016  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MeadowviewCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The law was first enacted in 1890....Where was the waffler then?...Only pennies got the waffler starting in the 50's or the 60's I beleive according to my research


BStrauss3 already stated what happened to defective coins before the waffler was in use.

This dime was damaged after it left the mint by an unknown individual.

People have been known to do all kinds of things to coins: drill holes, graffiti such as words and/or initials, shoot with a BB gun, using a vice to press the design of one coin onto another, and the list goes on. After a while, one learns what is a legitimate error and one that is post mint damage.

-MV
Bedrock of the Community
coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 07/30/2016  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The waffler prevents the discarded coin to be used in a vending machine. (won't fit)
  Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 10,843Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.43 seconds to rattle this change. Forums