1857 B.u.c.halfpenny

Pics don't look shiny, so I'll pass on your comment about possible cleaning, but overall I'd say this coin easily makes VF-20 or better.

By regular standards an easy 20+, by dragon slayer standards just barely a 20 (closer to a 15 simply due to the wear on the reverse). Below is a really nice mint state for comparison.

If I had to go by these photos alone I would agree that it does appear varnished.

This series was very well made & struck. They appear almost proof-like with extreme definition and depth to the devices. Whatever you think for grading (compared to decimal series) you can probably subtract 10 points.

1857 is the easiest year to find higher grade examples of this issue.

edited above post to show proper photo.

I suspect this token will require a bit more than an acetone bath.
Acetone will dissolve the lacquer, but I find that acetone does a
poor job removing decades of crud and grime.

Not all will concur with the following, but here goes...

I submerge the item in MS-70 for a minute or so. I don a protective rubber glove and pick up the item. With my other hand I dab the bristles of a soft bristle tooth brush into the MS-70 and work the bristles among the remaining crud (normally remaining in the devices). Using hot tap water, I rinse away as much of the MS-70 as I can, then I place a drop of liquid dish soap on the item and gently (using my thumb), work the soap about the item, thus removing any remaining residual MS-70 solution. I give the item another good rinse under hot tap water. Upon inspection, and when no repeat is necessary, I dry the item by blotting with a soft cloth. Afterwards I give the item a quick dip in Acetone, and let the Acetone evaporate. As a final precautionary measure against future issues (rust / corrosion), I give the item a squirt of WD-40, and after a minute or so, blot away the excess WD-40.

I would be hesitant to do this procedure on MS items, but scant notice or depreciation will be encountered on mid grade or lower items. I have sent many items to ICCS and other TPG and have not had any adverse comment concerning cleaning. Some comments to wit: NF-3A1, ICCS VF, (holed, bent), but no comment on being cleaned.

However, it must be noted, that some copper tokens will turn a dark gun barrel blackish colour. I do not know the cause. At present, I estimate maybe one out of every five hundred (and I have cleaned a couple thousand) have darkened.

enough for now

doug

hi again and thanks
i did not have any
acetone..so I doused
with scalding water..and
then some wd 40..then water with dish
soap..no rubbing..etc
i hope I have not ruined this
example
regards

EF30 due to better photo's

Concerning Torgemco's 1857 St. George Half Penny, Doctor Courteau identified some 48 different varieties of this issue (159-207 inclusive), and I have found a few that he was not privy to.

Varieties 159-189 exhibit a dot within each obverse Rosette, whereas varieties 190-207 have no dot.
Your token is narrowed down to the second grouping (varieties 190-207).

Within each grouping, the second characteristic to note is the terminal (end) of the Anchor Rope Dots.
These are the dots to the immediate left of the lower section of the Battle Axe Handle (slightly above the lower section of the left Cornucopia. These terminate either in one dot, one dot and a small line, a downward pointing dash, 2 small dots, 2 dots (the terminal the smaller), 2 medium sized dots, 2 large dots, 2 1/2 dots, 3 horizontal dots, or 3 downward pointing dots.
Your token has 3 downward pointing dots.

The 3 downward pointing dots are only found on Courteau varieties 206 and 207. Varieties 206 & 207 are differentiated by whether or not the man's left foot shews. Variety 206 exhibits a perfect left foot, whereas variety 207 exhibits no left foot.

Ergo, you have a variety 206, having a rarity factor of 2 (on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being common).


Concerning Wade's MS token:

This is of a Courteau group 1 variety (varieties 159-189 nconclusive).
This token is more difficult to attribute as there are more variables to examine.

One dot is found on varieties 159-164, One dot and a small line are found on varieties 165-174, a downward pointing dash is found on varieties 175 & 176, 2 small dots are found on varieties 177-179, 2 small dots (the last being smaller) are found on varieties 180 & 181, 2 medium sized dots are found on varieties 182-185, 3 downward pointing dots is only found on variety 186, 3 horizontal dots are found on varieties 188 & 189.

At present, I am unable to go much further as I have to retrieve my ensamples from my safety deposit box and compare yours to what I have.

doug

At present, what you have done is perfectly acceptable. If mine, would be pleased with the result and simply protect the surface with WD-40.
All the design elements are clearly distinguishable (save for normal condition wear of a VF 30). No diagnostic markers remain obscured beneath decades of grime and crud. Nevertheless, not all results will be so easily accomplished. Some procedures will required a bit more effort as the crud will be more stubborn to remove, thus a soft bristle brush (tooth brush, special artist paint brush, etal) may be required to loosen and remove the crud from the devices. Incidently, other soluvents besides MS-70 are also good. Pure Acetone is a necessity. But caution is required and Acetone is flammable and proper venelation is required. Acetone evaporates quickly, thus the remaining Acetone needs to be securely sealed and properly stored.

doug