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 Replies: 25 / Views: 3,693 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts |
I thought this would be an educational topic for forum members including myself by hearing the experts opinions on the subject of WH versus DD that I found very interesting and at the same token ,kind of confusing because after my recent Submittal on Two different DD coins I am now unsure how to distinguish the difference between working doubled hub doubling and a true doubled die only because they are almost identical in doubling and notches on devices! I also learned that the CherryPickers' Guide will be deleting some of the previously listed DD's in the next edition because they are now considered to be the result of a doubled working hub. Here is the example of my recent experience on attributions and the explanations, Coin#1 ( obverse)is a doubled die product of one of at least Four doubled working hubs. Coin#2 (Obverse) Is a doubled die,however is a doubled die produced by a doubled working hub. Coin#2 ( Reverse) The doubling on the reverse traces back to a doubled master hub ,then from master hub was transferred to the master die and in turn the master die transferred that to a working hub. Like to hear your thoughts and advice for an average collector how to determine what we have considering that not all of the doubled working hubs are listed and my closing question is: isn't a doubled die produced by a doubled working hub technically a doubling which was produced by a HUB! Thank you. Mike *** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***Edited by Chase007
08/07/2017 10:44 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1346 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7516 Posts |
999fine,
Sorry for not posting the Pics. right from the start,My main objective is to have a discussion on this topic and hear everyone's opinion. I will gladly post the Pics. at some point.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1346 Posts |
IMO there's no point to a discussion without pics.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Chase, wish I had my computer! The Working doubled Hub was actually derived from (possibly) two separate Working Masters, therefore it is "Master Die Doubling" by definition. Really had to think about that one! Apparently, only doubling introduced withing the Working Die hubbing process is considered true doubling. I also have seen what you've described, and even wonder when there is a proliferation of DDO / DDR's such as the 2009 LMC #2 DDR "Finger" , located in inner axis is not also a Master Hub/Die doubling and not a true DDR! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts |
Thanks Crazyb0,there lies a whole field of questions and unknown factors particularly for a collector particularly on these definitions and distinctions between the real DD and a WHO. Quote:
IMO there's no point to a discussion without pics 999fine,there are times that a basic knowledge could be earned from the experts in the field w/o a pic. by just asking a question and having an open dialog, but I promise you there will be pictures further into the topic. Edited by Chase007
08/07/2017 2:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
I will be on the learning end of this topic which I think is great. Thanks  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Best to start off with the differences between a Master Hub, Master Die, Working Hubs and Working Dies:  Note how the design is transferred from the Master Hub? If this hub is incorrect, then all dies/hubs will not be correct. (Only one made) When the Master Hub creates a Master die (note there are two made) it either is incorrectly hub, then a large number of Master die errors can be possible. (IE 1972 cents. A large percentage of these master die issues happened that year creating WD/DDO's that year. Because so many coins were affected, the Master die doubled coins are common, even though they are doubled dies. Note the next step down. Working hubs. Several of these hubs are created. Sometimes these hubs break down and create a few dies with problems. (ID 1956 cents with the broken lower loop on the date of these cents)  But the most common event that creates hub doubling is on the working dies. (these are called doubled dies as the die is actually doubled because of an improper hubbing) These can be very strong or very minor. The wider the spread, the more they command a better price. Also something else that causes higher prices is the number created. 1958 DDO-001 demands a higher price because only two are known.  So I hope this help answer the question asked in this thread. |
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Valued Member
United States
176 Posts |
Does this mean my find today is going to be removed as a doubled die?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74624 Posts |
Newbie38, your type of Doubled Die is class 9 "Single Squeeze". It is a Doubled Die as the results are a extra finger. The U.S. Mint thought that this issue was going to get resolved using the "Single Squeeze" process. But instead, it actually produced more Doubled Dies and the Mint was proved wrong. So now, we have tons of minor Doubled Dies as of a result of the "Single Squeeze" process.
Errers and Varietys.
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Valued Member
United States
176 Posts |
Would you slap it on ebay or hold on? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74624 Posts |
If it was me, I would hold onto it because the one you found is not easy to find or come by.
Errers and Varietys.
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Valued Member
United States
176 Posts |
If you look at my last response on it I said it looks to match 001 would you say I'm correct? And would it make it less rare?
Edited by Newbie38
08/07/2017 5:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3656 Posts |
So coop, Mike's coin #2 is the same scenario as the 1972 DDO's? Edit: Newbie38 - it would be best to discuss your 2009 on your original post for it and not this post. It is always good to have all your information and replies in one place relating to each coin. I would suggest that you go back to your original post and ask your last question there on if it is a match to a particular listing. Edited by CoinCents
08/07/2017 5:52 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
74624 Posts |
Newbie38, it's WDDR-001 and it the "Best Of Variety". Here are the values according to doubleddie.com. Values: AU = $17, MS60 = $25, MS63 = $35, MS65 = $50
Errers and Varietys.
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Valued Member
United States
176 Posts |
Thank you. I will hold on to it.
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Replies: 25 / Views: 3,693 |
Posted 08/07/2017 10:50 am
