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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,534 |
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New Member
United States
3 Posts |
Hi. My father left me several bags of circulated Peace and Morgan dollars. These are in a storage facility in another state. The coins' dates are unknown to me inside of the bags, however the facility inspected and counted the coins. If I ever sell the coins, I would like to determine the fair market value on my father's date of death (D.O.D.) in 2015? Also, since they are circulated, should I go by silver melt value or numismatic value? To find out numismatic value, instead of using the D.O.D., could the annual price such as the 2015 Red Book serve well as a tax basis? Thanks. "In God We Trust" |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
Other than key or semi key dates, value is silver melt value for CIRCULATED silver dollars. Red Book pricing is not fair market value. Bid/Ask pricing by greysheet would be a better indicator of fair market value. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3058 Posts |
I would go down and view the coins. Knowing the dates is the key.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Your question is the equivalent of asking how much a car is worth.
You know it's a car, but you don't know the year, the mileage, the repair condition, or anything else other than it's a car. And you want us to give you a value, or how to determine a value.
Can't be done, other than with a VERY wide guess. Pick a number from the sky. It's as likely to be right as any answer you receive here with that data.
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
24885 Posts |
 To the Forum .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
,JS! "Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
The easiest thing is assume that the circulated coins are worth silver melt. Being a collector, I would want to inspect each and every one of those coins. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts |
You want the highest step up basis that you can reasonably defend. Melt is most definitely NOT the way to go. Even a circulated 1921 Morgan's FMV is above the silver value, in almost every case. You will want a reasonable determination of numismatic value and as others have stated, that is date and condition dependent. An expert appraisal would be the best option, but is likely to be cost prohibitive. Greysheet is wholesale and IMO, not applicable for your purposes. I would personally start with 2015 Red Book values, then look at today's spread between 2017 Red Book and current Numismedia values for a sample of Morgan and Peace dollars. If the average Numismedia price is say, 15% below Red Book, take 15% off your 2015 Red Book total and you're there. When determining grades, if you're torn between VF and XF, it's XF for your purposes. Grading is subjective. Document your methodology. I am sorry your dad has passed, but the memory of him lives on and he would likely be proud of his child looking to minimize the tax burden. |
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Moderator
 United States
189053 Posts |
to the Community! I moved your post to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
I liquidated my dad's coins wihin 6 months of his death, and the proceeds went to my mom. I guessed that they were bullion-only value (modern proof US sets) and received about 10% over that from the local coin shop. Red Book is useful for collectors, but is greatly inflated over what a wholesale buyer would pay. Blue Book or bullion value are more accurate valuations, except for VERY uncommon rarities. If there are any of those, Heritage auction sales for 2015 for the same grade should be accurate. We were more focused on date of death valuations for stocks, which are much easier to determine than collectables. The estate tax accountant rejected the use of simplistic software fair market valuation for charitable donations. Too hard to defend in an audit. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
08/20/2017 09:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
759 Posts |
Per the IRS, "...(FMV) is the price that property would sell for on the open market." The wholesale market is not the "open market" for coins. This is the internet though, so despite my background in this area, you should not take tax advice from an internet forum. See IRS Publication 561. There is actually a section on coin collections. You are already past the one year holding period. If we are literally talking about 3000+ coins and a 28% applicable tax rate, a valuation difference of a few dollars per coin results in significantly different tax consequences. Your personal risk tolerance for an unlikely audit (look up audit stats) also comes into play, but what we are talking about here is going for 100% legal minimization of potential tax liability under existing Tax Code. If the numbers are as big as they seem they might be, this is worth a consultation with a local tax expert. Your valuation dilemma will not get any easier as time passes. All of the above said, melt will provide the most conservative FMV estimate, but most tax clients prefer to pay Uncle Sam the minimum amount they are legally obligated to pay under existing Tax Code. Best of luck.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Show us the money! to the CCF! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
Howdy and welcome. You've waited two years? The storage facility counted and handled your coins? They might as well sell them and send you the money.
Jest sayin'.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts |
It would be the executors job to value the coins for purposes of the estate's tax return. You should consult your tax adviser to make sure you don't have a bigger problem.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
992 Posts |
Tax considerations aside, I would immediately take possession of the entire lot of coins and get them out of the hands of others, as well as cease paying storage fees and risk of theft. For values, go to the catalogs and use those values, they are published, and accepted by the IRS. You don't need an appraisal, there is plenty of information available. This is not the Mona Lisa, it's an accumulation of silver coinage. Melt value is not the FMV for a Morgan or Peace dollar, unless it's worn down to a slug. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,534 |
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Posted 08/18/2017 6:25 pm
