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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,845 |
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts |
Edited by NJcoppers
08/27/2017 6:57 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
au details cleaned. Looks dipped.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36828 Posts |
Not much small detail in this design so harder to grade a circ piece. This one looks EF-45 based on the wear on the obverse rim. Brightness of the photo is cranked up so hard to tell if it has been cleaned.
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Valued Member
 United States
184 Posts |
Thank you for the inputs so far. I added two photos I took using artificial light that shows the surface better. But they do not represent the true frosty white appearance of the coins in just ambient light. I added two more photos with ambient light only. (The coin has a hard clear protector case around it)
Edited by NJcoppers
08/27/2017 2:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Appear to be signs of mishandling at the least, so I'll say AU-58.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
 AU-58 That is a very nice coin, wish I had one! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
The flat plains and fields make this issue difficult to grade by photos only, although you've offered photos as best as may be possible. The center mast and sail on the reverse is actually easier to use to grade, rather than the busts details on the obverse. I'm seeing the slightest rub, probably not from circulation, but from improper storage. Making this no worse than AU-58. Keep in mind that most of the Classic Silver Commemorative issues have a fair percentage, as much as 50+% in NGC and PCGS encapsulation, to say nothing of ANACS. A large percentage of those that remain raw probably maintain that place as they have been cleaned or are slightly handled. In almost all cases you are better off purchasing your CSC in TPG to begin with, often at comparable prices to raw. Plus, you avoid the ghastly counterfeit issues that are usually easily detected. But why take the chance? |
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts |
Thank you all so far. Yes, it can be hard to evaluate at times from photos only...nothing like looking at them in real life.
I posted above cropped photos of two actual NGC coins from previous auctions. How do you think these two would grade compared with the previously posted coin (in the first three sets of photos)? Will post the full NGC slab photos later with the grades.
Edited by NJcoppers
08/27/2017 6:55 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
The two coins you posted in comparison show full uninterrupted luster. Those look 63 and 64. Maybe higher. Yours shows surfaces that were chemically stripped of luster from a moderate (not harsh) dip in acid.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
AU58 sharpness, either cabinet handling or very brief circulation. I agree with Numismatic Student that the coin has been dipped; the luster is flat and dull. My net grade AU50, or TPG AU details. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36828 Posts |
After seeing your new photos I'd go AU-58 details on this one as it appears to have been cleaned.
Edited by IndianGoldEagle
08/28/2017 09:13 am
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts |
Thank you again for the inputs. I posted the photos of actual NGC slabs for the last two coins used as references/comparisons. They were graded by NGC as MS-66 and MS-67+. Not being a Long Island collector, my following comments/questions are for me to learn and not to doubt the opinions you kindly rendered: First, to what parts of this particular coin do you go first to look for wear (i.e. the AU-58 grade most of you gave)? I read that on the reverse the sails are a good indication. I assume on the obverse the hair would be it. Can you point me to the differences in the AU-58 coin and the MS-66/MS67+ as they do not seem to be jumping out at me? Second, I reviewed the "luster" and "dipped" issues some of you mentioned and I can see the luster on the MS-66 but not on the MS-67+ coin. Looking at a photo with all the disadvantages compared to real life , how how can I tell that it was "dipped" when comparing it to the MS-67+ coin which has a similarly "frosty matte" surface (at least in the photos)? Thank you! https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?...uct.chain%5Dhttps://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?...uct.chain%5Dhttps://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?...uct.chain%5Dhttps://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?...uct.chain%5D    Edited by NJcoppers
08/29/2017 4:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5675 Posts |
Hard to imagine how that last coin got a 67+ with the muted luster and small nicks on the rim, hair, and nose.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
I agree. That coin looks terrible for its 3rd party grade.
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Valued Member
United States
184 Posts |
In summary of the comments above:
- NGC does sketchy grading
- Photos do not do any justice to good and bad coins
- The days of genuine high-grade "raw" coins to be found by mere mortals are over as they are most likely doctored/dipped/cleaned and new ones will unlikely to enter the population
- Uniform luster on raw coins is most likely a dipped luster
- Wear patterns (when used in the grading determination) are difficult the describe in certain design types
Edited by NJcoppers
09/01/2017 12:25 am
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,845 |
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Posted 08/27/2017 11:08 am
