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 Replies: 19 / Views: 4,456 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
We've all seen the issues where coins have to be sent to 3rd party certification services in their original packaging or even sealed in unopened boxes in order to get special designations on the labels indicating the original mint packaging they came from or when they were first shipped from the mint. I've always take the position that if they can't tell a difference by looking at the coin only, then there is no difference. I received an email today from Modern Coin Mart that takes the cake. With this year's excitement surrounding the 75k maximum mintage of the 2017-S silver eagle from the Congratulations Set and Limited Edition Silver Proof Set, it seems that some people have gotten caught up in the "rarity" of the 2016 Congratulation Set. Under 6,000 2016 Congratulations Sets were produced. My guess is that most people didn't want to spend the extra money versus the regular packaging which in all honestly looks nicer anyway. Not missing an opportunity to proclaim a new "rarity", people are now claiming that the 2016-W proof ASE certified as being from the 2016 Congratulations Set is a must have if you want a "complete" ASE collection. Reality is that it's not really the coin that's being certified, but the packaging that the coin came out of. What's ironic is that in the process, the coin is permanently separated from the original mint packaging that's said to be ever so important. I do follow the logic of the 3rd party grading services and resellers in wanting to hype something in order to make a buck, but I can't at all understand why anyone would pay extra for an original packaging certification such as this. In this particular case we're taking an $800 difference between the regular 2016-W ASE certified PR-69 versus the Congratulations Set designated 2016-W ASE certified in the same grade. One side of me says that packaging certifications such as this are unethical and basically fraud while another side of me says that if someone falls for it, they deserve the loss that they'll take. I guess that in the end it's the business of the parties involved, so I'll just sit back and watch in stunned amazement. It reminds me of the Beanie Baby hype. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Reality is that it's not really the coin that's being certified, but the packaging that the coin came out of. What's ironic is that in the process, the coin is permanently separated from the original mint packaging that's said to be ever so important. The history of the coin (where it came from) is noted and collectors decide whether or not it matters. ASE collectors have shown they place a value on things such as this. Quote:
One side of me says that packaging certifications such as this are unethical and basically fraud while another side of me says that if someone falls for it, they deserve the loss that they'll take. Nothing even remotely close to fraud is happening. If people don't like it that's fine and they can buy other things, but it get's really old seeing all these people constantly take such a demeaning attitude towards other collectors for liking something different. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17947 Posts |
I suppose it's in a way similar to hoard or shipwreck coins - these often command a premium, but once they are removed from the shipwreck or hoard there is nothing to distinguish them from other coins of the same type. But personally I wouldn't pay the extra for one!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts |
No different than the double mint set verification service that has popped up in the last few months.
There is NO way to 100% guarantee all of the coins are original to an individual set.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1913 Posts |
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but it get's really old seeing all these people constantly take such a demeaning attitude towards other collectors for liking something different. Sorry, but just because someone wants to collect something doesn't mean that it's equally worthy to all other things being collected. I could understand it to a large degree if they kept it in the original mint packaging, but tossing the packaging to put it in a holder to say that it came from said packaging just strikes me as destroying what you're collecting. Respect is earned and not given. I have no respect for such silliness. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Sorry, but just because someone wants to collect something doesn't mean that it's equally worthy to all other things being collected. I could understand it to a large degree if they kept it in the original mint packaging, but tossing the packaging to put it in a holder to say that it came from said packaging just strikes me as destroying what you're collecting. Respect is earned and not given. I have no respect for such silliness. Why are you the judge of what's worthy of being collected? Basic respect for other collectors and what they collect should be a given and not have to be earned unless of course you would like your collection to be criticized for not being the best there is. As I said it get's old when collectors feel the need to attack other collectors because they like something different |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I've got to agree. The only one needed to approve of your collecting style is you. Those that collect coins and pop them into Dansco albums enjoy that process. I've never collected that way but I can still appreciate their albums when they display them here.
Considering any approach that makes the collector happy as better or worse is the equivalent of numismatic bigotry.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
I judge things because I'm a human being and it's natural pass judgement on the relative value of things. If someone wants to toss away their money on a 3rd party certification saying that a coin came from a particular original government packaging, that's fine. However, I'm not going to think it's just as worthy as say a nice complete collection of uncirculated & proof Lincoln Memorial Cents that could be had for the same money. And yes, I'm of course happy to subject my collection to the same standard. I too can appreciate other methods of collecting coins because they're about the coins, not about something that's meaningless. Again, it wouldn't be my thing to buy a particular coin just because it's in a particular type of OGP. However, I would get it if someone wanted to do that. But to destroy what's supposed to be special in the name of 3rd party certification is just foolish to me.
BTW basbal21, I didn't attack anyone. I offered an opinion of something that's for sale and expressed my opinion that it has no intrinsic value. If someone can't handle such an opinion, then life's going to be pretty difficult for them.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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BTW basbal21, I didn't attack anyone. I offered an opinion of something that's for sale and expressed my opinion that it has no intrinsic value. If someone can't handle such an opinion, then life's going to be pretty difficult for them. You gave an incorrect opinion showing you have no clue about the market you speak of while making judgements about what is and what isn't worth collecting. You keep doubling and tripling down on it, I would much rather just discuss coins but if you feel the need to keep belittling other collectors to feel superior I find that sad. Far to often do collectors get belittled by this type of attitude and it needs to stop. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
An "incorrect" opinion? It's an opinion. Opinion: an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something. I fully understand the market and the fact that if one of the 3rd party grading services certified a turd there'd be someone who'd pay money for it. Yes, I make judgements and share them with others on this forum. I like some coin designs. I don't like other designs. I like some series more than others. Other collectors share their opinions too. I enjoy hearing opinions and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I offered my take on something. You can disagree, but the fact that you attempt to twist my opinion of the value of a certification in to me having some sort of inferiority and belittling others demonstrates that it's you who simply wants to make it personal. Instead of doing that, why don't you offer up a counter point as to why such certifications add value? Somebody buys it, so it's just as good as anything else would not be a counter point. I personally see negative value in removing a coin from OGP that has a market premium in said OGP for the purpose of putting it in a slab that designates the OGP that it was once packaged in.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Opinions involve ambiguity. You gave incorrect information while belittling other collectors in the process and have continued to do so in every reply. There is a major difference between opinions about designs and telling people as you say what is worthy of collecting. Your "opinions" about grading and the market for them are not opinions, that is just incorrect information showing a lack of knowledge or willingness to research on your part.
You don't get to just make a bunch of incorrect and derogatory remarks about aspects of collecting and the market and hide behind the opinion angle.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
852 Posts |
Bret is 100% correct about coins sans box lose whatever makes them special (if collectors want to pay extra for a coin in a special pack then that is a fair choice). Without the packaging the coin is just another coin. If you crack open the slab to resubmit will the TPGs label it as a special coin or just another coin?
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
Collectors of rare vinyl records grade the record and the sleeve separately. I don't really collect modern NCLT product, but If I were to be tempted at public auction, I would want to know the condition of both, and separately. That information is usually included in the lot description, anyway. The only significant NCLT I have is a British proof gold 1937 Five Pounds of George V1, in FDC*, purchased 'nude'. I selected a screw capsule of appropriate size, and modified a modern individual proof Royal Mint coin box to house the capsule. In this case, the packaging is of no value, but it presents just as well as any modern encapsulated proof product. FDC coins of this sort of value need modern protection. *Fleur De Coin, = MS70. (from French: "Flower of the Coin) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
basebal21, you claim that I gave incorrect information, but fail to state what was incorrect. I've stated the fact that the coins in certain OGP that have a premium over the same coins in other OGP are separated from the OGP in the process of certification. No more research needs to be done, but feel free to share what knowledge you may have. I have belittled nobody. Using your way of thinking, one can't ever offer an opinion of the value of a service provided by a 3rd party grading service because someone that collects said slabs will get their feelings hurt. If you have insight to offer, please share it. However, your tactic of claiming that I'm attacking and belittling other collectors is wholly without merit and will not dissuade me from offering my opinions.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1375 Posts |
The TPG folks figured out a long time ago that some folks will not only collect the coin but the label as well. They were more than happy to oblige them, for an additional fee of course, with a plethora of different labels for the same coin (just how many labels are there for the Baseball HOF coins anyway?) If someone wants a particular label, or set of labels, for their collection then that's up to them. It's their collection after all. Edit: WOW! Here's a link to a 2016-W NGC PF70 ASE from a Congrats Set that sold for $3,989 on 8/25 and a link to a regular 2016-W NGC PF70 ASE that just sold (10/24) for $76. I guess you've got to REALLY want that label for this kind of price difference. Edited by BadDog
10/25/2017 12:44 pm
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Replies: 19 / Views: 4,456 |
Posted 10/24/2017 5:15 pm
