| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 2,117 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
I haven't been here that long, but I've been collecting most of my life. Before I found this site I thought I was pretty spot on when it came to grading Lincolns, but it looks like I'm doing something wrong as I am consistently undergrading. I use the RedBook almost exclusivly to help me determine grades. It states the following: G-4 Good - Date worn but apparent. Lines in wheat heads missing. Full rims VG-8 Very Good - Half of lines visible in upper wheat heads F-12 Fine - Wheat lines worn but vivible VF-20 Very Fine - Lincolns cheekbone and jawbone worn but separated. No worn spots on wheat heads. EF-40 Extremely Fine - Slight wear. ALl details sharp AU-50 About Uncirculated - Slight wear on cheek and jaw and on wheatstalks. So if anyone is willing to help, I opened up my Lincoln album and pulled out what I think are textbook examples of the 6 circulated grades that I use and took pictures of them. Be warned these images are all in the 2MB range So to start let's look at what I consider a G and a VG coin is. 1912 D http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading1F.jpg (Obverse) 1914 S http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading1B.jpg (Reverse) Here's my reasoning on the G4 Since half of the wheat lines aren't visible in the upper half it can't grade VG. Here's my reasoning on the VG8 Half of the wheat lines are visible, but all of them aren't. So it can't grade F-12 Now let's look at Fines and Very Fines 1916 S http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading2F.jpg (Obverse) 1919 D http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading2B.jpg (Reverse) Here's my reasoning on the F12 It takes some serious magnification to be able to see separation between the cheek and jaw bones, but when you look at the reverse there are obvious wear spots on the wheatheads. Here's my reasoning on the VF-20 The cheekbone and jawbone are separated. All of the wheat heads are evident, but they aren't all that sharp. And finally lets look at the XF and AU examples 1916 D http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading3F.jpg (Obverse) 1917 S http://www.springcypress.com/images/Grading3B.jpg (Reverse) Here's my reasoning on the XF All of the details are sharp, but there is wear evident in the hair as well as on the ear. The AU lincoln is just that ALMOST uncirculated. There is a small amount of wear on the cheek and jaw, and a slight amount on a few of the wheat kernels. Am I just being overly critical? Edited by SpringCypress
05/25/2008 2:11 pm
|
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19931 Posts |
You did GOOD! At a quick glance, I don't see any problem with your grading here.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Your grading looks spot on and definitely conservative. One of the finer points of grading is learning to distinguish wear from strike weakness. Strike quality will vary from year to year and mint to mint in any series and even Lincolns can be all over the place. For an extreme example and interesting discussion about die wear in Lincolns, check out these two threads- https://goccf.com/t/24875https://goccf.com/t/24837Edited by biokemist6
05/13/2008 12:09 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
245 Posts |
Very good explanation, the pictures realy helped.....now I've got about 5,000 + wheaties to check over AGAIN! Thanks, I'll have one for you guys to grade....if my posting skills are up to it!
|
|
Valued Member
United States
487 Posts |
Your grading looks good on these. I find that when I'm looking to buy coins I grade conservatively. I will be sure a coin is VF and the dealer is sure it is XF and if I buy the coin by the time I get home I'm sure he was right and it is XF. The toughest part of grading is not allowing who owns the coin effect the grade. I went back and forth with a guy last week on 96-S Morgan that he was sure was XF and I wanted it for VF $135 difference in price on the gray sheet between these grades. We never did agree and I passed on the coin. When I was leaving he picked up a couple of Morgans and through them in my box for free and one of them was the one he wouldn't sell me. So I sent it off to be graded. I will let everyone know who was right when it comes back.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
142 Posts |
I loved your examples and am now using them as a photo-grading guide for my wheat cents. I cropped them all tight to the coin and merged them into a single image along with corresponding grades and Red Book grading criteria. It is an extremely useful tool for me and I would love to show you the finished product, but I am new and still way under 50 posts and I don't know how to do this. I can't post a link or send an email. Does anyone know of any way I can share an image without violating any rules here? |
|
Valued Member
United States
429 Posts |
Sounds a lot like how I grade mine. The other comment I would suggest on the G and VG is the ear. With a G you are lucky to have a small spot to show where the ear is and the VG start to have more of an outline to it but not so clear. This is the first thing I look at before I even look at the rest of the coin. The difficult part is the reverse side, the coin in your VG example actually looks to be about an F but the lower side usually determines the final grade.
With the F and VF I think you also pin pointed the right reasons and would like to add the detail in the hair and bow tie. Some people would not agree on the example of the F coin you have because of the ear and that there is not a very clear outline of it, but the detail to the cheek and bow tie make up for this (along with the reverse). The VG is a perfect example because of this, the ear is outlined, the cheek bone is distinct, there is a curl at the corner of the mouth and the eyes have great detail.
The XF and AU seem to be right on, in fact, I wish my earlier coins had such luster. If you sell coins then I know without a doubt that I can trust the grades you put on them. Thank you for also taking the time to put this post together with the pictures, I know how much this helps with a lot of us and trying to understand the grade.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
142 Posts |
Well, as I was telling you I (and everyone else)liked your grading set so much that I made myself a photo grading image with your coins. I just spruced it up a little to make it look nice and I was just going to post it here to let you see it and make it available to others (I think newbies like myself would find it a very useful tool), but I thought I should ask you first. They are your pictures and I shouldn't assume it is OK with you if I use them and re-post them in a new package. For what its worth, I did build in a small photo credit for you. Please let me know, if you give me the green light I will post it. If not, I will understand completely.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
263 Posts |
Thad...Biokemist....where can I learn more about grading weak strike Lincolns? Is there a text that covers weak strike dates and mints?
Intellectually I understand that grading is about the amount of wear on a coin and the condition of the remaining detail, color, etc. I also understand that the 1922D...no D...errr....weak D is a celebrated version of a weak strike or worn dies. I have learned just recently that among some Lincoln collectors weak strikes with little wear can have very high grades; that a general or specific lack of detail due to a weak strike is not penalized in the set grade. I have even, reluctantly, plunked down some hard cash for a Die#3 weak D slabbed at a grade of F12. Now, is that really a VF-30 or higher grade dressed in an F12 suit? It sort of reminds me of the old question of "the tree falling in the forest with no one around".....do collectors generally recognize that weak strikes with little wear can be XF...AU....or UNC or does the lack of detail most often result in a much lower grade? HELP this Lincoln newbie understand.
Regards,
Alan
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
do collectors generally recognize that weak strikes with little wear can be XF...AU....or UNC or does the lack of detail most often result in a much lower grade? HELP this Lincoln newbie understand.
Yes, that is exactly what happens many times. Alot of collectors will undergrade coins like that without understanding the subtleties between die wear and coin wear. People who specialize in Lincolns will usually recognize this occurrence and give an appropriate grade to a coin. I have seen F or VF grades on Lincolns when they still have obvious mint red around the devices. A coin with some original mint red remaining cannot possibly be such a lowly grade! Generally, the Lincolns from the late teens through the 20s have the worst die wear but other dates can be plagued too. If you want more than just a general knowledge, then I would recommend purchasing a Lincoln analysis book such as The Complete Guide to Lincoln Cents by David W. Lange or Looking Through Lincoln Cents, 2nd Ed. by Charles D. Daughtrey(coppercoins here). Edited by biokemist6
05/28/2008 08:47 am
|
|
Valued Member
United States
263 Posts |
Thank you Biokemist6....
Alan
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
19931 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
United States
263 Posts |
Thanks Thad! Very interesting reading.....
Alan
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
666 Posts |
Sorry it's taken so long to respond... I rarely have internet access when I'm at work... and I work some crazy schedules (21 days in May). Feel freee to do with as you will any of the images I took. I'd love to see the end result.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
142 Posts |
Thank you. As long as you have given the green light on this, I may share it with other members when appropriate. Your grading was good and your photos were clear. Nice job! BTW...I use this graphic every time I grade wheats.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
860 Posts |
Nice grading, I agreed with each step. I am glad that we have such ability to share photos. The old photograde books with black and white drawings from photos were more often confusing ( F looked better than VF, etc) than helpful. Biokemist6 remarks are very pertinent. One of the harder things for grading is to determine the amount of true wear. A good light and microscope helps a lot. Thanks for the effort and I look forward to seeing DCV's addendum.
Jim
|
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 2,117 |
|
Posted 05/13/2008 12:08 am
