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1955y Penny Mule? Anyone Has Any Info On It?

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Valued Member
Mairo's Avatar
Australia
53 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2008  03:18 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Mairo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I was told that there was a 1955Y mule penny but none of my books shows it..
If anyone has any info please tell me
Formerly nancyc
Nevol's Avatar
Australia
5385 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2008  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It gets a 'mention' here, http://the-ans.com/pennyvty.html but that's all. I've never heard of it.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
Valued Member
Mairo's Avatar
Australia
53 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2008  03:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mairo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
look what I found :O
http://www.oztion.com.au/buy/auctio...emid=4468558

i wonder if its real?
Pillar of the Community
Peter THOMAS's Avatar
Australia
2830 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2008  04:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, here's what I've picked up:
"... The 1955 and 1956 Perth Pennies were struck with Melbourne obverse dies and also Perth obverse dies. A very small number of the 1955 Perth Pennies actually carried the reworked Perth obverse die type and hence are RARE as such. (Refer Rennik's coin varieties!) These distinctive Perth obverse dies were later used in the minting of the vast majority of 1956 Perth Pennies. The distinctive die type for Perth had the "I" of ELIZABETH and both "A's" of GRATIA pointing between the denticles.
... The 1955Y MULE is determined by the "I" in ELIZABETH and the 2 X "A" in GRATIA pointing BETWEEN the denticles.
... refering to Fred Levers article in the April ed of Coin & Banknote Mag (Pg 56), it says that the 1955Y. mule penny is the 4th rarest penny minted. .
... The 55 Perth mule was minted with newer obverse type 9 which was to be used on Perth Mint coins 1956 onwards, distinguishable from the orientation of the I in Elizabeth and Gratia being between the rim denticle and the A's in Gratia also point between denticles.
I have always just suspected that on 55 Perth coins, they were testing the new type 9 obverse, and on the 1956 Perth coins were getting extra use from the old type 8 obverse.
... Paul Holland wrote an excellent article in the Journal of the Numismatic Association of Australia Volume 12.
... RARE 1956 PERTH PENNY WITH MELB. OBV.
. can be identified by the I in Elizabeth being directly under a dot and the 1st A in Gratia also directly under a dot. The defining difference is this coin has the 120 dots of the Melbourne type as against the normal 116 dots on the Perth coins."

"1956Y Australian Penny
very scarce 1956 Perth Mint Penny with Melbourne Obverse
... In most 1956 Y. ( Perth Mint) Pennies the first 'A' of 'GRATIA points between the beads.
... In the Mule variety with the Melbourne Mint Obverse, the 'A' points directly at a bead.
Ref; Renniks Australian Pre-Decimal Coin Varieties 1st edition, by Ian Mc Connelly Page 43.
1956: Designations P56M.8H; P56P.8I; P56P.9I"

I found a 1955 mule among the pennies I've held onto since 1966: which seems to justify my behavour over four decades.

Anything that involves "counting denticles" tends to lose my interest. But, I wish the rest of you a happy & prosperous voyage.

Peter in Darwin



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Spedward's Avatar
Australia
839 Posts
 Posted 06/01/2008  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spedward to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
never heard of one
Valued Member
Australia
61 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  04:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add QldSandy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I know about these coins came from the link below.
http://www.triton.vg/pennies.html

I do have 2 of the coins in my album and the G reverse coupled with the 9 obverse as in the link above should be the requirement. Picks are below. Cheers.

Coin 1
1955y-Penny-Mule?-Anyone-Has-Any-Info-On-It?
1955y-Penny-Mule?-Anyone-Has-Any-Info-On-It?

Coin 2
1955y-Penny-Mule?-Anyone-Has-Any-Info-On-It?
1955y-Penny-Mule?-Anyone-Has-Any-Info-On-It?
Valued Member
gnome's Avatar
Australia
372 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gnome to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's what I am also assuming is being called a mule.
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Spedward's Avatar
Australia
839 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spedward to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thats a mule?
Valued Member
gnome's Avatar
Australia
372 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gnome to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nope, neither is the 1956.
Edited by gnome
06/02/2008 7:10 pm
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Spedward's Avatar
Australia
839 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spedward to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
k
Valued Member
gnome's Avatar
Australia
372 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gnome to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "Mule" term gets thrown around with alot of Aussie coins that aren't, both in the predecimal and decimal arena.
The above mentioned coins are varieties.
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Spedward's Avatar
Australia
839 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spedward to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeh mules are like.. 10c printed on a $1 coin.
Valued Member
Australia
61 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2008  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add QldSandy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand that the term "Mule" is applied when dies not normally associated with each other are used to mint a coin. The 2000 MOR with the 10 cent obverse is an example as suggested above, as is the 1916 halfpenny with the Quarter Anna obverse. If the mint decided to use a 1956 die in the 1955 production run as a trial, then I don't see how the result could be classed as a mule seeing as it was a planned outcome. A variety would be what I would class it as also. Cheers.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2008  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that's a better definition of "mule"--like the namesake, a cross of two distinctly different beasts.
Those two examples you cite seem to me as classic cases of "mule" coins.

To a lesser degree (but no less collector interest), I know of Canadian coins that are considered "mules", but simply use obverse dies that were intended to be retired. Such is the case for the 1955 "no shoulder strap" cent--a very valuable coin.
Edited by KurtS
06/03/2008 1:10 pm
Valued Member
Australia
206 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2008  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add farnbycoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mule, maybe, maybe not, has fans both sides of the fence, but 1 thing for certain, is a very difficult to source rare coin the 55y obv 9.
I think it is still a classic, undervalued coin, and a great coin to be able to tick off your list, in any grade.


Quote:
I understand that the term "Mule" is applied when dies not normally associated with each other are used to mint a coin


That's a good definition of the term mule QldSandy, but missing the all important word, intentionally. That, after all, is what this debate as to mule, or not, is based around.

EG revamp-- "the term "Mule" is applied when dies not normally associated with each other are unintentionally used together to mint a coin."
Sorry to be so picky, but feel it is the defining word.

There seems to a lot of speculation, and assumptions as to how these 2 date varieties came to be, but is there any official stance from the Mint?
Edited by farnbycoins
06/07/2008 9:56 pm
Valued Member
gnome's Avatar
Australia
372 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2008  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gnome to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your going to open a can of worms with the definition of what a mule is.
Over the years I have had some interesting debates about this topic.
Die varieties should not be classified as a mule even if the definition says dies not normally associated together.
To me that definition means different country or different denomination, paired together.
What would your classification be for the 1931 Indian obverse normal 1 and dropped 1 pennies, or the 1920 London obverse 1d, or the 1922 Calcutta obverse 1d's. Are these also to be classed as mules, they are even from different mints outside of Australia.?
Die varieties are die varieties.
Please don't even go to the 2005 proof $1 or the 2005 proof 20c pieces in the proof sets as examples. This is about the predecimals.
For me, the 1955 and 1956 are die varieties.
The definition of a mule needs to be clearer.

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