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 Replies: 23 / Views: 4,835 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
This is actually an excellent example to keep for reference and eye training. Before getting to the visual cues, the fact that the coin is under-weight by about a gram and a half solidifies that it is not genuine. Coins of this type were filed down to the correct weight. If anything, one without adjustment marks might be overweight, not under.
I've also never seen one of this type without any signs of adjustment marks. However, I have seen some where the marks were light enough that heavy toning and a not-so-great photo made it look like they were completely absent. That does not appear to apply to this coin though.
Edited by Numismat
05/04/2018 6:39 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
...the fact that the coin is under-weight by about a gram and a half solidifies that it is not genuine. It seems to me that the the next question is how, with a coin of this size, was the weight brought even that close to what it should be? Is it debased silver? Testing via xray fluorescence (XRF) might be very revealing in this case, as what really needs to be determined is whether it's a very recent forgery (most likely from Russia or China in that case) or something concocted way back when, which wouldn't be quite so bad. Colligo ergo sum
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
Lucky I'm quite certain this is a modern forgery of the Chinese variety. Also, owning many and having seen a ton of these early Germanic thalers I'm also quite sure it's a cast copy. As to your question about how a somewhat close weight was obtained I'd say via thickness. Because this coin is in the approximate diameter range I would bet that it is noticeably thicker than an original. I would perform an SG test on this first before I'd even consider XRF. As I mentioned before, an SG test will definitively confirm this is a non silver alloy.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
541 Posts |
Can never be sure from viewing this scan. Sure would be interesting to measure, weigh and do a specific gravity test on this coin. What does the edge look like?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2637 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Hong Kong
1270 Posts |
There are raised letters present at the edge but they are mostly torn. The whole coin is significantly worn so it accounts the "one-gram low" for the coin. Filings on a coins or adjustment marks were done only when necessary. It can't be an evidence to say a coin without filings seen is fake when most other coins have adjustment marks. This is a simple logic. I still vote the coin is genuine. To be assured more thoroughly, correct silver content will be more conclusive.
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
I can't make anything meaningful from the edge pictures, but whatever is there looks like blobs.
Henry - I agree with you about the adjustment marks and although very common in early thalers, and this issue in particular, there are those with little or no adjustment marks.
That said, I think you are completely inaccurate about the weight discrepancy being caused by wear. Have you ever seen a coin be off by more than 1g because of wear? If this coin graded P01, where it was a uniform smooth blank, maybe then I'd understand a loss of 1g. In this current grade, which I'd say is F-VF, you will never have such a material weight discrepancy.
Besides, it's not just the weight, it's all the other factors also. The weight is just the final nail. I know you collect reales so I'm not sure what exposure you have to German coinage but unlike reales, the Germans thalers are a great illustration of German engineering. They are perfect each time, the letters are crisp and the details never mushy; everything that this coin is NOT!
Arkie - are you able to perform an SG test so we can lay this to rest.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1666 Posts |
It is a pretty high grade coin with little actual wear. This is why the gram and a half difference is such a significant factor. Such a difference due to wear on a coin this size would leave it worn mostly flat, like a G-VG low grade coin.
Edited by Numismat
05/05/2018 12:49 am
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Replies: 23 / Views: 4,835 |
First Page
Posted 05/04/2018 8:25 pm
