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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  03:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the very unusual coin from @spence is so called siege money that was produced in the city of Maastricht in order to pay the defending garrisson

during three emissions several denominations were produced
besides another piece of 16 sols (like the piece from @spence) below a 24 and 40 sols

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

there are smaller denominations like the 1/2 (extremely rare), 1, 2 and 8 sols: these are on my wish list

the siege of Maastricht is an important fact of the 80 years war; it was headed by Alexander Farnese, who -after a surprise movement of the Spanish Army- quickly traveled 100 miles from a mock battle field in order to be there before the relief army of the Dutch;

Farnese captured Maastricht - an important stronghold on the Maas river - after fierce attacks and determined defense on June 29 1579; this was the first of a long series of military achievements of the duke, the beginning of the 10 years of Parma.

below an impression of one of the offensive moves attacking the city at two weak spots in the walls (upper left and upper right) while the general sits in front of his tent with his senior officers (lower left) (engraving by Frans Hogenberg)

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by 1c5d7n5m
09/07/2019 03:26 am
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  03:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
siege money from the 1570's made in different cities of the Northern and Southern provinces of the Netherlands are collectors items since a very long time

below a silver 40 stuivers (2 guilders) minted in 1578 in the city of Amsterdam; as most siege coins, the planchet is stamped on only one side, the reverse is blank

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Amsterdam still had a pro-Spanish administration in 1574 when the Spanish army moved to the south, and the rebels tried for years with blockades from the sea and small sized attacks to take the city
in 1578 they succeeded; below another engraving by Frans Hogenberg

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Edited by 1c5d7n5m
09/07/2019 07:16 am
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NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
18068 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  04:02 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
English sixpence - 1578:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  04:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1/2 Öre, Sweden, 1578

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7973 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonderful contributions this morning. Tomorrow I will have a siege coin from the other side of Europe.
For today, Poland Lithuania commonwealth, 1578 grosz Gdansk mint. First year of coins issued under Stefan Batory,
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34461 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thx for providing more info about my coin @1c5.

Today I have a 2 Kreuzer from the German Countship of Pfalz-Simmern dated AD 1578:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like the 1578 coins!
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t360's Avatar
United States
2703 Posts
 Posted 09/07/2019  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1578 King Henry III of France

1/2 Franc

La Rochelle(H)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Franc

Paris(A)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Limoges(I)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Aimens(X)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 09/07/2019  9:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1578 -- Kingdom of Hungary, 1 denar:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7973 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  12:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1577 siege Grosz, City of Gdansk (K. Goebel mintmaster).

Alone among cities in the Poland Lithuania Commonwealth, Gdansk refused to acknowledge Stefan Batory as the new Polish king when he was crowned in 1576. The inevitable result was siege and eventual subjugation of the city in 1577. A very good accounting of the history (1572-77) from a numismatic perspecttive is given here:https://coinweek.com/world-coins/wo...gold-ducats/
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thaler, Saxony, 1577

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  03:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1577 a quarter of a Statendaalder minted in Maastricht, the city that was under siege two years later (see siege money of two days ago).

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

the obverse still shows the portrait of king Philip II and his titles
however, the reverse is a revolutionary design as it does not show the Habsburg coat-of-arms but the denomination (8 S for 8 stuivers) between the letters PHS for Philip; the most interesting feature is the legend PACE ET IVSTITIA (peace and justice); this is the motto of the third revolt of the Netherlands agains the Habsburg regime.

Indeed, Statendaalders were minted in most of the provinces after the so called Pacification of Ghent in response to the mutinies of the Spanish army in 1575 followed by the horrifying plundering and massacre of Antwerp (the fury of Antwerp). The Netherlands were in shock and responded by a united demand that all Spanish forces should leave the country immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacif...ion_of_Ghent



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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  07:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All provinces united around the monetary system of Statendaalders. Except Holland and Zeeland who started on their own course towards independency (Holland would take more the leadership position to an independent Dutch republic in the coming decades).

This independent monetary course was first taken in 1572 with the revolutionary countermarks on Habsburg coins (we will see these a few days from now) and in 1575 with the production of the revolutionary coin of that time: the Leeuwendaalder (sometimes called the Lion Dollar).

We'll see the earliest types tomorrow and thuesday. Here is a whole and a half Leeuwendaalder from 1577.

whole Daalder, quite commonly found but less so than the year 1576:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

the half daalder is more difficult to find it has the same design:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864


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erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You all have such faboulous collections and fantastic coins and jetons!

I have a single coin from the 1570s, and that one I cannot nail to a specific year, so it has to stay out of this thread. If you still want to see it, you can find it here: http://goccf.com/t/306552&whichpage=33#3053675
Edited by erafjel
09/08/2019 08:34 am
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7973 Posts
 Posted 09/08/2019  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took a look, and that is a very nice coin indeed, with interesting comments on the history.
Very interesting that a lower denomination coin bears a legend in French while the silver coins (t360's post of yesterday) are still in Latin.
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