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How Far Back Can We Go? Fifth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 09/12/2019  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1573 -- Kingdom of England, 6 pence:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34458 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Groschen from the German Duchy of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel dated AD 1572:


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7971 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  08:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Duchy of Brabant, 1572 Philipsdaalder.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

Edited by tdziemia
09/13/2019 08:06 am
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very nice Philipsdaalder !

to continue my story of the Dutch revolt (which is finished in a few days) here is a velddaalder (taler sized coin made during a siege) of the city of Middelburg, province of Zeeland; the coin is stamped on only one side

Daalder of 36 stuivers, silver
Emission december 20, 1572.
"Spanish garrison led by Mondragon sieged by the Dutch rebel army"

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

There are only die stamps on the Obverse:
central: in a circle of pearls: ·+· / .D.R.P. / .F.MIDD / ·I ·5 ·7 ·Z ·.
left: counterstamp of coat-of-arms of the province of Zeeland
right: counterstamp of coat-of-arms of the city of Middelburg

References
Delm. 165; PW. 01; vG. 36a; Maill. 83.2; vL. I 159.2.

this piece, rare but somewhat more common than the silver siege coins of Haarlem and (1572) and Leyden (1574) is unusual for its very rare die variant and the huge die break

Edited by 1c5d7n5m
09/13/2019 3:48 pm
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t360's Avatar
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 Posted 09/13/2019  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t360 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonderful Middelburg velddaalder!
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks t360

here is another Philipsdaalder with a counterstamp of the revolting province of Zeeland (the familiar Lion-in-the-sea), on the obverse and hammered in the neck of the king
see the other counterstamp - "klop" in Dutch - of Holland on the half Philipsdaalder yesterday

most numismatics attribute the "kloppen" to 1572, during the siege of Haarlem, in order to raise money for relief forces

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

the host coin is quite worn (it dates from 1558, and was 14 years in circulation when the "klop" was applied by the rebels
but the rare Zeeland "klop" is of very good quality
Edited by 1c5d7n5m
09/13/2019 4:49 pm
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the host coin is quite worn (it dates from 1558, and was 14 years in circulation when the "klop" was applied by the rebels
but the rare Zeeland "klop" is of very good quality


Nice!
Valued Member
Norway
375 Posts
 Posted 09/13/2019  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giljan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2 kreuzer, Ferdinand II, Tyrol
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  04:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1571 here is another "klop" from the rebels in Holland (applied in 72 or 73); the countermark, the Holland lion (reference Delm 141B) not placed in de neck of the portrait of the king but on the reverse side, which is unusual

1571 is date of the host coin: a 1/10 of a Philipsdaalder (small coin, about 3 grams of silver) minted in Dordrecht, province of Holland

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

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Spence's Avatar
United States
34458 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  05:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is really amazing to see these pieces of history @1c5. I feel a little like I am walking through a museum exhibit.


Here is a 1/84 Gulden from the German Free City of Nüürenberg dated AD 1571:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7971 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I feel a little like I am walking through a museum exhibit.


Certainly the curating provided by 1c5d is better than in some museums I have visited.
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you exaggerate (!) but for a 999th post it is nice to further continue the story backwards - I hope it makes sense - with some real history
a piece of history decided on the seas, like the defeat of the great Armada in 1588 - that changed the course of events in Europe

Below a jeton from 1571 (Dugn.2538, vLoonI.142.3, Tas106) with the title 'Victory at Lepanto'
Obverse Portraits of Philip II and his spouse Anna of Austria
Reverse Allegoric 'Belgia' with cornucopia OPTIMIS PRINCIPIBUS // BELGIA

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864


On 7 October 1571 the largest naval battle in history since antique times was fought in the gulf of Patras (Greece). In the well known battle of Lepanto more than 400 war ships were involved. The victory of the Holy League, led by Archduke Don Juan of Austria (only age 24 at that moment) was a turning-point of Ottoman military expansion westwards into the Mediterranean part of Europe. One soldier on board of one of the numerous Spanish ships was no one else than Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, the author of Don Quichote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lepanto

below a painting by an unkown artist of the battle; the Ottoman crescent moon and stars and the Red cross of the Holy League can be clearly seen on the flags


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Petrus's Avatar
Belgium
2895 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  6:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petrus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for all that history!
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pepactonius's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2019  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1571 -- Free City of Riga, 1 schilling:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fifth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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tdziemia's Avatar
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7971 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2019  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Reverse Allegoric 'Belgia' ...


Since we have complimented you on historical knowledge, now a question: from a numismatic viewpoint, at this point in time, we have coins issued in the southern parts of "Spanish Netherlands" as Brabant, Flanders, Artois, etc. Yet here we see in this allegorical Belgia a reference to the future (1830?) Belgium?

(And by the way, the inclusion of the painting of the Battle of Lepanto continues your great curation!)
Edited by tdziemia
09/14/2019 10:24 pm
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