1991-P-Lc---Greasy Rim Cud Or A Fold Over ?

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Author	Replies: 32 / Views: 3,035	Page: of 3
11997755 Pillar of the Community United States 2253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 3:13 pm This looks like a rim Cud to me but I have trouble with these and wonder what you all think it is ? Thanks for looking. Report this Post to the Staff

Errers and Varietys Bedrock of the Community United States 74770 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 3:53 pm Definitely a Rim Cud for sure! You also have a Rim Fin on the left side as well. Very nice find and congratulations! Errers and Varietys. Report this Post to the Staff
Mark1959 Pillar of the Community 7234 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 4:08 pm Looks like a rim Cud and also to me a MAD (Mis Aligned Die) as the reverse rim is not affected Report this Post to the Staff
Halo1st Pillar of the Community United States 2775 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 4:09 pm I'm not so sure rim Cud fits here, as in an actual break in the design rim. Would like to see an edge view of it along with the edge area 180° opposite. Thinking there is more to it than meets the eye so far. Thanks, Doug. Adding, is the diameter consistent all around? Edited by Halo1st 07/21/2018 4:16 pm Report this Post to the Staff
11997755 Pillar of the Community United States 2253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 4:24 pm Quote: I'm not so sure rim Cud fits here, as in an actual break in the design rim. Would like to see an edge view of it along with the edge area 180° opposite. Thinking there is more to it than meets the eye so far. Curious to see where your going with this. Report this Post to the Staff
Halo1st Pillar of the Community United States 2775 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 5:18 pm Quote: Curious to see where your going with this. I put the below in quotes because I previously posted it in a different topic, but thinking it applies here as well. Quote: Because it resembles one, I think it will qualify as a rim Cud by the cud-on-coins guide lines. Note: I see none listed like it for this year and mint. To qualify as a rim Cud by my guide lines is another story. If the strike is misaligned or a worn collar is present, it often produces a false rim. Sometimes it fills in completely and sometimes partially resembling a rim Cud. A rim Cud is produced when the recessed design rim has chipped or broken away from the outer recessed edge of the die. The coins material will then try and fill the added cavity during the strike. 1.52mm is the US Mints specs for a cent thickness. I know most any roll of cents will show a variety of rim thicknesses, but you're less likely to see the thickness exceed that unless something has altered the strike or the die(s). So I always ask myself, before qualifying: 1. Does it rise above the normal design rim? Taking in account the design rim as a whole regardless of thickness. 2. Is there an identical rim Cud already listed with similar pick up points? To have more than one show up from the same die, would for sure aid in the confirmation. A Rim Fin is something of a different nature. Material that extends out from a gap between the collar and one of the other die or dies. The odds of a Rim Fin folding over in the exact form of the design rim after strike is, well sorry I don't have time to count that high. Thanks, Doug. To continue with your coin here, I'm trying to confirm the collar was intact or not showing signs of any wide collar issues. The misaligned die does not seem severe enough to cause the containment breach seen 180° opposite the suspected rim Cud. I'm thinking on the breech side, that is a lot of material that flowed out between the obverse die and collar gap causing the overall weakness in the field. The suspected rim Cud side shows a false rim or rim gutter on both sides of it commonly seen with misalignments and or collar issues. Is the diameter normal (19.05) all around. Also does the suspected rim Cud exceed the US Mints 1.52mm thickness specs? Thanks, Doug. edit: fixing typo's..... Edited by Halo1st 07/21/2018 5:40 pm Report this Post to the Staff
John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 5:27 pm Cool find Earl. I think Mike might want to see it and make a comment. John1 Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 5:30 pm Looks a bit like a partial collar or tilted die issue creating a fin on that area. Edited by coop 07/21/2018 6:12 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Crazyb0 Rest in Peace 10197 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 7:07 pm Note also the disturbed reverse portion opposite that area. Tilted die movement? Report this Post to the Staff
11997755 Pillar of the Community United States 2253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 8:08 pm Quote: Cool find Earl. I think Mike might want to see it and make a comment. I'll shoot him a PM. Report this Post to the Staff
11997755 Pillar of the Community United States 2253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 8:11 pm Quote: Is the diameter normal (19.05) all around. Also does the suspected rim Cud exceed the US Mints 1.52mm thickness specs? Unfortunately I don't have a set of calipers. Report this Post to the Staff
Errers and Varietys Bedrock of the Community United States 74770 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 8:17 pm My thought on it is still a Rim Cud. Errers and Varietys. Report this Post to the Staff
11997755 Pillar of the Community United States 2253 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 8:22 pm I think Halo1st is on to something. The coin is thicker at the " Cud" as well at 180 degrees from the " Cud". You can notice the difference in the edge images. Report this Post to the Staff
Mark1959 Pillar of the Community 7234 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 8:30 pm Quote: The coin is thicker at the " Cud" as well at 180 degrees from the " Cud". You can notice the difference in the edge images. Huh! I never noticed - that could mean everything! Report this Post to the Staff
mikediamond Pillar of the Community United States 2738 Posts	Posted 07/21/2018 9:22 pm As others have noted, this coin shows a rim Cud on the right and a finned rim on the left. There was also a little bit of "grease" on the die that left the last numeral of the date faint. Error coin writer and researcher. Report this Post to the Staff
John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 07/22/2018 04:51 am So no collar issue or tilted die issue? It looks more interesting than just a rim cud/fin. John1 Report this Post to the Staff
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