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Billions In Stored Coins? Should Mint Make Major Production Cuts?

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llewellin's Avatar
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1005 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2018  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add llewellin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree jeffbuckes an overnight transition to fractional coins could work really well. I think the way would be this:

Cents and nickels are removed from circulation and recycled. They are no longer legal tender but will be accepted at banks.
Halves are issued for circulation yet again. Quarters stay the same.
Dimes are instantly (and without prior warning) revalued to 12.5 cents i.e. a "bit" and thereafter referred to as such. The term dime could also be repurposed to mean one eighth instead of one tenth instead of changing the design so circulating dimes would still be used.

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perfessor's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2018  01:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Changing to 1/8 of a dollar as the smallest increment is an interesting idea but one that would never work. I assume this would be for coins only and not for electronic forms of payment. Money has been recorded as hundredths of a dollar (cents) since this country was started and like it or not, it's a better system than using 1/8 and 1/16. That is why the stock exchanges changed to hundredths. It's a lot easier to do the math and a lot less confusing. 1/8 of a dollar is 12.5 cents. Nothing is based on fractions of a cent (why start now?).
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2018  01:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Dimes are instantly (and without prior warning) revalued to 12.5 cents
Please do! I have a previously undisclosed megahoard of dimes.


In all seriousness, going to fractional will do way more harm than good. Let us not do that.
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Jadey's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2018  07:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Gary Schmidt

As I have pointed out before if each HOUSEHOLD, not person, loses, destroys, throws away, or simply tosses THREE coins a WEEK into a change jar, it will consume the entire annual mint production. The mint does not make billions of cents every year because the economy has grown so much that it NEEDS billions more cents, it needs them because the billions they made last year are in hoards or lost and are not in circulation. I just counted the coins in my pocket and there were 34, that is the quota of coins for my household for the next three months.

Believe me the government does WANT to have that billion plus dollar coins in storage, they would much rather they be out in the publics hands/hoards because then they could be making more. Making dollar coins for circulation made a couple hundred million dollars in profits for the government each year.


I've not thought about it from that perspective before, but that does make sense. It now occurs to me that frequent use of these coinstar machines could actually help with this problem by getting those coins back into circulation.
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basebal21's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2018  08:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
They've made nearly half a trillion of them since they should have been abolished.

That's a rounding error on a Biblical scale.


Not even 5 billion dollars worth of Cents over 60+ years is a rounding error for the US budget. That's worth it to keep it. The higher the denomination of the smallest legal tender is the more you condition people to accept rising prices.
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2018  09:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not even 5 billion dollars worth of Cents over 60+ years is a rounding error for the US budget. That's worth it to keep it. The higher the denomination of the smallest legal tender is the more you condition people to accept rising prices.


At the risk of belaboring a point I could agree that a mountain of worthless pennies and the millions of manhours to shovel them hither and yon are not a very significant part of the total US economy.

But the government attitude that it's just tax-payer money and taxpayer lives being wasted has become a huge part of the US economy and it is sending a clear signal to history as well as to all and sundry that waste and greed are the controlling factors now days.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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 Posted 12/02/2018  09:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The decimal/fractional question is one I have given some thought to over time.
The coinage system we have been accustomed to is a wierd mix of decimal and fractional denominations. Although Ben Franklin proposed, and the country initially envisioned, a purely decimal system, the contemporary coinage in use was largely fractional foreign issues, most notably the Spanish dollar and Spanish fractional coinage. It was not until the second half of the Nineteenth Century, that there were enough U.S. coins in circulation that foreign coins were abolished as legal tender.
The mint started out pursuing purely decimal denominations in 1792-1793. The earliest cents and Half Cents even included the fractions 1/100 and 1/200 which are decimal denominations expressed as fractions. The Half Dime and dime were also clearly decimal denominations.
But then in 1796, the mint issued the first quarters, a purely fractional denomination. From 1804-1836 quarters were labeled as a 25 cent denomination, which is consistent with a decimal expression of value. Then in 1838 the mint began calling the coins quarter dollars.
The half dollar had a similar history. The lettered edge of the first issue said "fifty cents or half a dollar" which was both a decimal and fractional expression of value. Beginning in 1807, the reverse said 50 cents but the edge lettering remained. In 1838, the edge lettering was dropped, and the denomination of value on the reverse was changed from 50 cents to half dollar, a fractional expression which continues today.
Due to the small number of U.S. coins in circulation in the earliest years, the public was locked into use of fractional coinage based on the Spanish dollar. The habit became so ingrained that people often referred to the quarter as "two bits," referring to 2/8 of a Spanish dollar. Also, experiments with other decimal denominations, 2 cent, 3 cent and 20 cent, never achieved lasting public favor.
Today's coins are the cent, nickel and dime which are all decimal, the quarter which is fractional, and until recently, the half dollar which could be treated as either, but which has had a fractional name for almost 200 years.
So that seems to be how we got where we are today: a mixed decimal/fractional system developed through economic necessity due to a shortage of decimal coins in circulation.
Although the existing system is somewhat illogical because it is consistent with neither the fractional nor the decimal approach, in practice it has worked quite well and no one has seriously suggested changing it. Frankly, due to habit and long standing commercial practices, I don't see a change to either a purely fractional or decimal coinage system as any more likely than a switch to the metric system.
Of course, this only applies to circulating coinage. As pointed out, business practices, including stock pricing, have all moved to purely decimal pricing, and there can be no doubt that we have had a decimal economic system throughout modern times. Personally,, I think people will stop using coins altogether before we change from the current publicly accepted mix of fractional and decimal denominations..
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 Posted 12/02/2018  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the government attitude that it's just tax-payer money and taxpayer lives being wasted has become a huge part of the US economy and it is sending a clear signal to history as well as to all and sundry that waste and greed are the controlling factors now days.


I agree with that, but the point was that it is such an insignificant amount of money that get ridding of it wouldn't in anyway address the problem that getting rid of it is supposed to help. It isn't even in the top 10s of thousands of things that would make a difference for that issue.

Without getting political, it just doesn't matter or make any different until a lot of other things happen. It would be like saying to get out of debt I will skip a fast food meal 4 times this year and making no other change.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2018  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How do we have a decimal system without a low-denomination decimal coin?

We have a low denomination decimal coin, it's called the Dime. Which fits nicely in there between the 12.5 and 6.25 possibilities you mentioned.

The reason we got the quarter dollar was because for over 100 years the only relatively common coinage in circulation were the Spanish dollars and it's fractions (and the Spanish system was based on 1/8ths) So for over 100 years before we started our decimal system the people were used to using quarter dollars. Jefferson recommended a 20 cent coin to fit into the decimal system but the quarter was already too ingrained. I'm not sure what we would have ended up with the British coins had been much much more plentiful. Even so it was NOT easy t get the public to switch to the decimal system. Most businesses still kept their accounts in pounds shillings and pence until around the second decade of the 19th century. What finally got it accepted was when the government enforced use of dollar accounting when dealing with the government in payments and taxes sometime I believe around 1810. Before then if you look at government accounts you will see some in dollars and some (even in mint accounts) in pounds shilling and pence.
Edited by Conder101
12/03/2018 10:57 am
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2018  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the government attitude that it's just tax-payer money and taxpayer lives being wasted has become a huge part of the US economy and it is sending a clear signal to history as well as to all and sundry that waste and greed are the controlling factors now days.



Quote:
it just doesn't matter or make any different until a lot of other things happen.
Why not just complete this easy victory and then have more resources to tackle the other problems?
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 Posted 12/10/2018  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmkendall to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I typically get a roll of dollar coins each week from the bank. I use them for small purchases and yard sales, when I don't want to pull out my wallet. Rare is the time someone doesn't appreciate getting those coins from me. Indeed the most common expression I hear is "You sure you want to spend that?". I think there is more demand and interset than most people think.

I also remember that there is a South American country that uses our dollar coins as their national currancy. Where it is very popular!
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 Posted 12/10/2018  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I went into Bank of America to do some business for my mother last week. There was a sign up stating that as of February 1, 2019, that bank will not accept unrolled coins for deposit. I took that to mean that if you didn't have a whole roll of any type of coin, they wouldn't accept your coins. Even if you have nineteen dollar coins, that bank will not accept them for deposit. But they will accept your single one dollar bill.
New customer policies like that led me to leave that bank shortly after NationsBank took it over in 1998. But now that one major bank has done it, others could follow suit.
No bank will accept foreign coins for exchange. I have a small handful of one and two Euro coins at home that have no value unless we go back to Europe sometime.
No one knows what this will mean in the long run, but it looks like this bank would be against increasing use of the dollar coin.
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832 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2018  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Sharkman -

I'm getting slightly off-topic here, but how many Euro coins do you have?

If it's just a few, save them as souvenirs.

But if you really don't want them you can send them to me, I can use them.

You could also sell them to http://www.leftovercurrency.com/exc...s/euro-coins

They're located in London so shipping can be expensive.
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 Posted 12/11/2018  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jeffbucks
About 15-20 total coins. Am keeping as souvenirs with several much lower denomination non-Euro coins in a foreign coin box. Hopefully my grandkid will find it interesting.
Don't blame the banks for not wanting to handle foreign coins. They are heavy, bulky, probably more expensive to transport and not worth full face value until repatriated.
But a U.S. bank refusing to take legal tender really bugs me and seems almost immoral, especially given what the American taxpayers have done for the banking industry over the years.
I'll spare everyone further rants. But they're there.
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 Posted 12/11/2018  5:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Sharkman -

I understand your frustration. These banks think they're saving money by not accepting your loose change but they're not.

Real life example: I worked in the cash office of a large retailer for many years - we had to buy coins BY THE TON every week. All that coin cost money - we had to pay an armored car company (Brinks) to deliver coin to us. They charged a big fat service fee on top of the face value of the coin. So, believe it or not, we actually preferred when customers paid with change - because we needed the coins anyway, and every time a customer paid with cash and coins it meant a little less we had to order from Brinks...! Yeah, we had to count and store the money, but we had to do that no matter where it came from. So if your bank won't take the US coins please spend them! The clerk might moan (some can't count change sorry to say) but the accountants in the head office will smile.

BTW: I'll buy those euro from you. I won't make you rich, but if you don't want them maybe we can make a deal. Send me an email if you want.
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