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Billions In Stored Coins? Should Mint Make Major Production Cuts?

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Finn235's Avatar
United States
6130 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The big problem with the past three iterations of dollar coins (Prez $, Sacs, SBA) is that the design was a failure but the vending lobby would throw a fit if they had to re-equip their machines to accept a new size, weight, or composition. When I worked as a cashier from 2008-2011 I did a lot of roll hunting, and tried to use my till as an alternative to using dump banks. Plenty were excited to get dollar or half dollar coins back in change. A disturbing number of customers shoved any gold dollars back at me and flatly refused to accept "atheist dollars" (don't get me started ) There is a lot more to the failure of these coins than just logistics and the continued availability of the $1 note.

Maybe we can get Ecuador etc to buy them all up so we can start over? It would probably take years to get to that point.

Personally I would like to see a bimetallic, preferably thicker coin with a good heft that could be easily separated from quarters or halves by look and/or feel.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
187446 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sadly, we will probably be cashless before they ever fix the problem.
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Jadey's Avatar
United States
900 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jadey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Atheist Dollars? Never heard of that before.
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TomW's Avatar
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Atheist Dollars? Never heard of that before.


The earliest Pres dollars had "In God We Trust" on the edge of the coins, and many people didn't realize this and thought that the words had been omitted from the coins. The words were moved to the obverse of later Pres dollars to clear up the confusion.


www.stelzriede.com/warstory.htm Website honoring my dad's service in WW2 + lots of old music
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perfessor's Avatar
United States
927 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2018  11:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought they called them "godless" dollars. Or maybe that was the ones with the plain edge, you know the "error" coins.
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TomW's Avatar
United States
65 Posts
 Posted 11/28/2018  12:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TomW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I thought they called them "godless" dollars. Or maybe that was the ones with the plain edge, you know the "error" coins.


Yes, I've heard that term used for them, also. I guess the words "godless" and "atheist" are pretty much synonymous.
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MrPink2018's Avatar
United States
2455 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2018  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MrPink2018 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Sharkman... I saw that thread & posted to it earlier today, regarding dollar bill vs dollar coin. I'm all for a silver dollar, but not all for another sacagawea, SBA or dead president dollar coin.

a silver dollar should have LIBERTY on the obverse, eagle on the reverse, and be made of silver.

none of the modern dollar coins are of any particular interest to me. I hold them for study, but am looking forward to spending them so I can post to the spent dollar coins thread.

i'd have to do a lot more reading about it to understand why there are billions in storage, but I'm uncurious about it if it's those dollar coins that are being stored. it's hard for me to speculate about govt moves, ideas, procedures, etc., without some kind of political rant, or anti-political rant, so I just leave my Two Cents at 'liberty silver dollar' as a replacement for the dollar bill. I have some ideas about what govt can or should or could do with those billions of dollar coins...

when I was 8ish (1975 or so) I remember walking to the dime store with Kennedy halves & ikes to spend on candy & junk. I loved those huge coins in my pocket. back then an ike would nab many reese's cups and huge sacks of m&ms. that is likely why a liberty silver dollar appeals to me, aside from the coin being silver (instead of nickel-zinc).

if govt has any silver to release, they should do it.

no more dollar coins unless it's a silver liberty.
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456 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2018  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mr Pink
I think we're cut from the same cloth. I share your views, especially as regards dead presidents. Indeed, I'd like to get away from all historical figures. They've been around forever (Honest Abe, 110 years young), seem kind of uninspired (what IS that thing on the back of the dime?), and it sure would be nice to have some new designs. The annual quarters series shows the mint can do it.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  07:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Royal Australian Mint in Canberra normally keeps about 2 years of forward production in reserve.

One problem with this is that sometimes, huge numbers of older coins, that have been kept in reserve, may be melted.
I don't understand. I consider thus a very inefficient policy.
But that is sometimes what they do.
And all Mints seem to do this occasionally.
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
a silver dollar should have LIBERTY on the obverse, eagle on the reverse, and be made of silver.

Well if you want it to be a circulating coin, and you want to make sure it isn't hoarded and melted down when silver goes up, you will need to keep the amount of silver in the coin small enough that the price of silver could quadruple before they would be worth more as metal than as money. Congratulations you now have a silver dollar half the size of the old Three Cent Silver piece.


Quote:
i'd have to do a lot more reading about it to understand why there are billions in storage,

The law required the coins be made and the banks could order boxes of each new coin as they came out and did so at the request of the collectors. The coins went out, and then they came back to the banks. No one asked for the older coins just the new ones. So the older coins wound up being sent back to the Fed and never ordered by the banks. So the coins kept going out, then coming back, and being stored because they had nothing else they could do with them. Finally the Fed said they just weren't going to order anymore from the Mint. But the mint still had to make them, collectors bought them and what they didn't want flowed back to the banks and then the Fed. For awhile before the fed stopped ordering them the mint tried to get them into circulation by letting anyone order boxes of the coins from the mint at face value, and the mint paid to ship the coins to them. What happened were LARGE orders for coins being paid for by credit card, then when the coins arrive they were taken straight to the bank and deposited. The people then paid off their cards and pocketed the cash back or flyer miles, and the coins got shipped back to the Fed and stored.


Quote:
if govt has any silver to release, they should do it.

They don't. The silver eagles were the governments way to sell off the strategic stockpile of silver. The stockpile was depleted around 1998 and ever since then the government has had to go out an buy silver in the marketplace to make into silver eagles to sell at just over spot to the distributors. The government probably makes more money on the relatively small mintage of proof and burnished ASE's than they do on the tens of million of bullion ASE's.
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United States
456 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Conder,
I don't know how long it took you to develop your encyclopedic knowledge, but I am glad you actively participate in this forum. I have learned a lot from your posts.
The situations you and sel describe are both senseless and deplorable. Rational people and businesses would not allow this waste to continue. The law that requires continuous minting of unnecessary coins needs to be changed. But in the U.S. that requires Congressional approval, and the people in Washington supposedly running the country seem to be so busy playing power politics and hating each other these days, that it seems they hardly ever actually do anything. That's not what many people want, and may be part of the reason that Congress has a 15% approval rating.
If our elected representatives ever decide to try to work together again to solve problems instead of spending their time fighting with the other side, Congress could address myriad issues of unnecessary costly government waste. There would be time to address issues such as coinage reform, and debating and resolving issues such as discontinuing the penny and paper dollar which are the subject of two other active topics on this forum. For the time being, however, I doubt the issues we are discussing would hit the government's radar screen.
I think that is sad.
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Ballyhoo's Avatar
United States
1613 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No. I think they need to reexamine the acceptable criteria which they use to remove them from circulation. The problem arose, one which most likely got overlooked in 1964 (test striking for the 1965 change over in composition), because nickel-clad lasts years. Decades. Unlike silver and copper. An au 1964 quarter could have circulated for say, three years, and still have very nice detail. I routinely pull early to mid-nineties from change with the same detail.
ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member
There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
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basebal21's Avatar
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The situations you and sel describe are both senseless and deplorable. Rational people and businesses would not allow this waste to continue.


Having a currency reserve ready to go isn't waste.


Quote:
There would be time to address issues such as coinage reform, and debating and resolving issues such as discontinuing the penny and paper dollar which are the subject of two other active topics on this forum.


If you want to talk about that's not what the people want, this is not what the people want in all honesty.

This is literally the most bias supposed to be in favor place for dollar coins and getting rid of certain coins YET even here a significant percentage of people are against it. Granted the sample size is irrelevant overall given the size of the country but the support percentage is just going to drop when you get into people that don't care at all.

The "loss" from pennies is a rounding error. No one wants dollar coins and they would just get counterfeited left and right like the pound. The "savings" from them is greatly over exaggerated.

There's about a 10k more important issues for them to concentrate on if not more than whether or not we have a penny. As soon as that's gone the nickel would be next
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cladking's Avatar
United States
2270 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2018  7:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The "loss" from pennies is a rounding error.


They've made nearly half a trillion of them since they should have been abolished.

That's a rounding error on a Biblical scale.

It's not just the waste of mining, striking, and transporting them but the millions of manhours wasted counting and handling them.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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United States
832 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2018  12:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jeffbuckes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Part of the "penny problem" is that we rely on a decimal system - the dollar is divided into tenths and hundredths and thousandths (the mill). How do we have a decimal system without a low-denomination decimal coin? (Is it working in Canada? I've seen it in Ireland - it hurts a lot of poor and elderly people for whom every cent counts.) Perhaps the solution to the "penny problem" is to adopt a fractional system, maybe 1/8 or 1/16th (sounds familiar doesn't it?). Then the smallest coin would be worth 12.5 or 6.25 cents (respectively) and we could dump the one-cent coins altogether. Another idea: if the government ever stops producing the one-cent coin, I propose a law says that all cash transactions must be rounded down, never up, to the nearest five-cents. Then consumers would have less cause to complain. Until then, I love my pennies, and I want all of them, including yours.

FWIW: Anyone else remember when the NYSE was listed in 1/16ths? They switched to the decimal system back in '01?
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