Coin Collectin Is Not Dying Despite Some Claims

Exactly, for the most part even that has been showing an upward trend.

As far as the chart itself, it's horribly flawed as well and I really wish they would get rid of that old thing. It's got proofs mixed with MS and grades are all over the place. There's a bunch of gold in there whose price just tracks melt value. Then there's A TON of classic commemoratives, the Booker T Washington takes up over 70 spots alone.

https://www.PCGS.com/prices/PCGS3000.aspx

That link can let people actually see what comprises it and see what a mess it is. It's hardly definitive of anything just like price isn't definitive of anything.

No, the chart means prices haven't even come close to keeping up with inflation, since those prices are in dollar terms, not inflation adjusted. Meaning that right now, we're about pricing to 25-30 years ago in absolute dollar terms, even though inflation has rendered those dollars 50% less valuable...

If you bought a $700 coin in 1989, it's worth $700 today even though your $700 worth of 1989 dollars had twice the purchasing power in 1989 that it does today.

If you had put the same $700 in an index fund in 1989, you'd have $10,000.

These aren't terribly hard concepts.




It's always funny, the absurd things people say when trying to defend an indefensible position.
Anecdotes are standard, but trying to reason with people who think that going to a coin show is an indicator that "the coin market is fine" is probably pointless. That right there is a real gem, though.

I'll also note that simply asking you to show us the largest social media coin group, that you claim is evidence of health of the market, has met with total silence from you. Your position a little weak, perhaps?

An interesting point that is very worthy of discussion is the price-depressing effects ebay had on the value of most collectibles that were once constrained to local transactions and the 'price guide' era.

Suddenly, there was a 24 hour, centralized global marketplace to arbitrate and settle price in real time, that everyone could see. This completely shattered all pricing illusion on basically everything. Huge swathes of collectibles were rendered to junk status... but everyone in the Precious Moments, Baseball Card and Beanie Baby world all had personal anecdotes that in spite of the pricing we were seeing happen in reality, the market was just BOOMING, where they were located... Sound familiar? The internet revealed just how FEW people wanted to buy certain things, and how much of it was actually out there and how much BS the earlier market narratives were built on. But it also had the opposite effect, at the high end. For esoteric or rare items, it suddenly brought the world to bear on your item, whereas before, trying to sell locally would've resulted in a very low price. Prices of the best stuff actualized, fast liquidity became available while prices of common stuff was severely depressed.

Anyone in their late 30's or older watched this unfold, but we weren't all equally equipped to comprehend what it actually meant, as it was happening. There are still people who make he case for 'price guides' as handed down by industry clerics as being 'more valid' than prices as settled on ebay. They deeply resent this change and tell stories on internet forums about how price guides are still standard and in common use in the little magical bubble they live in, how everyone in their area ignores the internet and still uses the trusty, old price guides... How it's still 1888 where they live, in Willoughby.

Sound familiar?

Some people think that we're in an existential decline for most all 'collectibles' for several reasons, not the least of which is that there's an upcoming generation that doesn't quite value hoarding and the acquisition of 'stuff' like ones in years past.

https://observer.com/2017/08/millen...nce-economy/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...28840a70be07

This lines up exactly with what I'm personally observing, as a generational trend.

The problem here is that we have one *** Staff edit: Do not get personal, argue the idea *** who claims that coin collecting is 'as popular as its ever been' because social media has managed to centralize the last few people onto a digital island, much like the flat earthers think that flat earth is incredibly popular and common, as they restrict themselves to flat earth communities.

What matters are blatant trends and the bigger picture.

*** Staff edit: Do not get personal, argue the idea *** here makes the case that 'price doesn't matter', but that position is utterly absurd as price is the ultimate rational arbiter of actual demand. You can bulls**t and rationalize everything else. You can't *** Edited by Staff | The bad word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing the filter and making the intended word obvious anyway is completely unacceptable. *** price. When you adjust for inflation, those prices are horribly down.

We have generational trends that are rejecting collecting of ALL types.
We have unarguable and very visibly decreasing participation of people (of all demographics) in real-world forms of hobby social outlets... but especially people in critical growth demographics. *** Staff edit: Do not get personal, argue the idea *** makes the case that they've all moved to the digital world but if you look at the digital world, what you see is a relatively tiny group of people standing next to a MOUNTAIN of inventory that they'll never soak up... and as time goes on, prices continue their downward march on that timeline as one grandpa's-coin-collection after another is sold into a market that doesn't have the metabolism for it, quite like it did a year earlier...

That's where we're at with this thing. Come on a coin forum and say this, you'll be told stories about how things are just booming at the local Peoria Coin Show but anyone cognitively capable of seeing the bigger picture on this, probably already does.

You're literally not addressing a single thing I'm saying.

You claimed that the health of the Coin World was evidenced by the internet, yet when I ask you to substantiate that, you call it a 'gotcha game'.

You argue against the most inarguable weighing-factor there is- price- by vaguely implying theories that might 'explain' it, while pretending that 'demand' isn't the ultimate answer.

Your position is just complete garbage.

The decline in coin prices have been sustained for a generation now, especially when you factor in inflation. You note Boeing stock price today as being an indicator of air travel. Do you not see how completely moronic that position is?

Haha. No, no, you don't.
I'd say you're a great example of the sort of person who believes coin collecting is'growing' and I think the breadth and depth of our arguments here speak for themselves. Any thing else I might point out would probably be personally insulting, so I won't.

I never knew about the PCGS3000. I find it interesting. Although one cannot take it as gospel as to the health of the global coin market. In January 1970 the index was priced at 1000. It has since increased by 5585%. That is well above the level of inflation. Also, by my math commemorative coins represent about 23.7% of the index.

From what I hear from local elder collectors, there were many more people attending coin shows and coin club meetings. Particularly in the 1960's with the price of silver increasing this seemed to attract people. There has been many comments in paper publications about the risk of the hobby dying. As others have stated, this seems overblown by looking at ebay and other auction sites. The common stuff can be hard to sell unless the seller is flexible on price. This has always been the case. The less common higher quality stuff continues to have strong demand. Just try getting a deal on a problem-free 1948 Canadian silver dollar or higher grade Dominion of Canada or 1935 series banknotes.

I'm still accumulating stuff, so if prices are weak it will be easier on my wallet and that's fine by me.

Comparing a generational trend with a one day stock price is "the same thing"?



The market dynamics in play here are very obvious to anyone who understands this stuff It all rhymes, market to market. The fundamentals are the same. You absolutely do not comprehend any of this, even on the most superficial level but you're desperately trying to participate in this conversation anyway in spite of knowing absolutely nothing. The internet is what it is, like that, with guys like you... If we could give you a real time, 20 question test on cause and effect relationships in market pricing, this would be proven.

But here's all that matters.
Your contention is that everything we can see dying in the Coin World is really just a reformation to the internet.
I ask you to show your work, you immediately start babbling, changing the topic, crying "troll", etc.

How about instead of all that, you just show us this great exemplar of the internet coin age that shows how much growth has occurred over coin collecting in years past? Why is asking you to substantiate your own claim a 'gotcha game'?

At this point, this feels like beating up a disabled kid wearing a helmet who doesn't know when to stay down so I too am losing interest in communicating with you much further but how about for the sake of driving home your point, you just do that one thing... Your own words, your own proof.

Show us the coin internet that's so much larger than coin collecting of years past.
Don't tell stories about it.

Show us.

I knew it was high, but didn't realize it was that high. If it really is almost a quarter of the index that amazes me that the whole thing isn't just a falling rock. Don't get me wrong the classic commems have some beautiful designs. That said, they were so heavily promoted decades ago and one of the big areas where the TPGs showed they weren't rare and prices have been falling for a long time aside from the best of the best and wild toners




A lot of people start out with PMs especially during a price spike and then end up gaining an interest in the numismatic side as well.




Exactly. These trend search things don't tell much at all. Google isn't the end all of knowledge neither or their tools that can be used to show any picture you want.