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 Replies: 23 / Views: 4,470 |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Hello, Got an odd one for you guys. I have checked vamworld and cant seem to pin point what I have here. The reverse shows substantial clashing(?) around both wreaths visible to the naked eye. This first picture is of the right wreath Image:  photo2.jpg44.87 KB Now the left, clashing(?) between the top set of leaves and the second. Notice the long line leading down to the 4th set of leaves, I believe this to be part of the clashing. Image: photo3.jpg72.76 KB There is also heavy doubling on "UNITED" and most of "STATES" Image: photo3.jpg72.76 KB Wait there's more.. I dont know all of the terms but there is a die chip or gouge on the left top of the N in "ONE" Image: photo4.jpg61.95 KB And there are more errors all over the coin reverse and obverse, almost too many to list. I am finding more every time I look at this coin. So any ideas what this might be? I will get some better pictures up soon, but hey not bad for an iPhone with 10x loupe in front of it LOL Thank you all for taking a look! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
most of those clash marks are pretty common and wouldn't really make for a new VAM number but you may want to include a picture of the mintmark because that will help attribute the coin in most cases of Carson City Morgans |
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New Member
 United States
21 Posts |
Thank you Bryan1315 for taking a look. Here is a picture of the mint mark. It is hard to make out in the picture but the CC's are closed, set right and a possible slight tilt left. They also have heavy polishing inside both C's Hard to get a good pic with it still in the GSA case but I am working at it. Thank you again Zac Image: photo5.jpg23.91 KB |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Not sure if this picture is any better... Image: photo6.jpg56.05 KB |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1219 Posts |
Welcome VAMit, and welcome to the world of headaches and Vams. We have all been there and done that, see something not listed on a coin and WOW I've got a new one here. Not. Not everything is listed in the book, just enough to distinguish from others. The mountain you see on the right wreath is clash from the vee in the bonnet separated by the ribbon. The S clash clash on left wreath is lady liberty's upper lip and indent under nose. The line heading toward the olive branch is the bridge of her nose in front of the eye. I'll go out on a limb here and say VAM 2. The clashing looks pretty strong on your coin so check for clashed letters next to her neck line and in the hair vee on the obverse. Could change the Vam#. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5604 Posts |
VAMit, hello, and welcome to the forum.There is plenty of talent and experience here.I would ask if you could post a picture of both the obverse and reverse.I see what appears to be "molten silver drops" on some lettering( the e in one), also Bryan was correct( in my opinion ) as to the clashing being very common.I would love to see the lady in full, MORGANS DAD...
ps: Enjoy the forum!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5604 Posts |
I also see what appears to be a die crack or break on the reverse rim, there is what appears to be a build up or raised metal on the reverse along the word one.MorgansRmine is well versed in vams and like he told me not to long ago, everytime you see something that "VAMWORLD" does not list you are prone to think you have a new VAM, NOT!! PICTURES PLEASE!!MORGANS DAD... |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Hello and thanks MorgansRmine & morgans dad. MorgansRmine, yep there is clashing on her neck it is not as noticeable as the clashing on the reverse. I do not notice any clashing at the hair vee, I hope I am looking in the right spot, it should be in the field just below the hair vee, right? Nothing.. I do see well defined clashing at the back of the hat. Also there is doubling in the date, some of the stars and some letters. Something else that caught my eye is a noticeable square beneath the dot between "E" and "PLURIBUS" morgans dad, I am not sure where to look to verify the die crack/break. Here are some pictures I wish they came out better, it is not a bad looking coin, rather a pleasure to look at under the loupe. Image: photo7.jpg98.82 KB Image: photo8.jpg75.87 KB Image: photo8b.jpg447 Bytes Sorry it didnt like the file size so I had to cut it in half. |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5604 Posts |
1882-CC VAM-2C Doubled 882, Break Cap Back, Doubled Lip Counter Clash HIT LIST 40 MORGAN VAM2C III22 · C3b (Doubled 882, Break Cap Back, Doubled Lip Counter Clash) (177) I-3 R-6 Obverse III22- Clashed die that has been polished as in VAM 2B. Further clashing with slight die rotation that produced one or two curved clashed lines at top of left and right wreaths. Single curved clash line shows doubled upper lip from counter clash and double curved clash line also shows small die break at back of Phrygian cap from die clashing. I also see on the reverse at the top of the right wing an incused appearing line going up from the wing to the word in.I am not sure because there are some things on your coin that are known and attributed to that year coin, and there are things on your coin that are not attributed to your coin. As far as VAMWORLD AND THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PEACE AND Morgan dollars, 4TH EDITION, AND MY EXPERIENCE. LETS SEE WHAT MORGANSRMINE comes up with!! |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
WOW! Thank you Morgans dad, I knew I would find an answer here I just didnt know it would be that fast!
Yes there is a line from the wing to the "In", I think die crack? the left side is a bit higher than the right side.
There are so many odd things about this coin, I will try to get better pictures, it is just so hard with it in the case.
Also any idea about the weird stuff under the letters of UNITED, STATES and TRUST? At first I thought doubling but it does not follow the shapes of the letters, rather square towards the tops and lumpy looking. There is also doubling on the other words too.
Really interesting coin, the back is riddled with errors and I haven't even mentioned the clashing on eagles neck, file/polishing marks and the double tail feathers! And thats just the reverse!
More to come, just wait till I flip this thing over LOL
Again thank you for all your help and to anyone who is following along
Zac
Oh by the way, if anyone lives in Southern California, I would love to have a fresh pair of eyes look at this thing
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1219 Posts |
VAMit, I'm sticking with my VAM 2 assessment. 1. I just don't see the die break on the back of the bonnet. 2. Under the first 8 in date, I believe I see the remnents of a misplaced digit. This only occurs on Vams 2 & 2A. This has been removed by polishing on later die states of 2B & 2C. Would like to see close up of date, back of bonnet above ribbon and first 3 stars after date. The VAM 2 is know for roughness around the reverse legend letters from poor polishing. That was my first tip from your origial pictures. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5604 Posts |
MorgansRmine, I wanted to ask you if a MORGAN does not have all the attributes that go with a VAM, does it mean this is not that VAM, or I guess I am trying to say can a VAM just have some of the attributes associated with that numberand still be called a VAM by that number.I have seen some that have 75% of the associated attributes of a certain VAM.I have also seen some that have more than the amount known to exist on other coins. BE WELL , MORGANS DAD... |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
if it is missing any attributes that are described then chances are its the same number with just a letter behind it, but sometimes its a whole different VAM. Usually (can't say at all times because people do make mistakes)the only attributes that are listed are the ones that has to be present to be that specific VAM, it can have extra attributes (like slight clashing) but can't be missing any |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
527 Posts |
It is possible that a VAM has different die stages that account for different looks to the coin. As Die Deterioration advances the details become more pronounced and new details can appear. they classify it as EDS (early die state), MDS (mid die state), and LDS (Late die state) With this ammount of clashing on the reverse, I would check the area by IN GOOD WE TRUST for the M clash that corresponds to the engravers initial on the obverse. |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Hello, First I would like to thank everyone for there time looking at this one and there knowledge. I can tell I have a lot to learn but very excited to soak up anything you guy have to say. Ok so I just got a new camera so I could take some good pictures. Funny thing is, this camera has found things I didnt see at first! I think I have located the small clashing in the neck vee, you can catch a glimps of it in the picture of the rear of the bonnet. Please let me know if I am off. Also a little farther down, more clashing?  MorgansRmine, here is another one for you, the date and right stars. The polishing marks around the stars did not come out as well as I hoped but they are definatly there as well as the line beneeth the 8  And here is a better one of the CC mintmark  NGiles, Here is a picture of the top of the reverse  And the last one I just thought was cool, it is actually my lighting mistake, but a neat picture none the less.  I have taken about 50 pictures of this coin so if you would like to see another area just let me know! Again THANK YOU everyone! I promise my other 1882CC is a way easier one to point out! Battery charging, pictures of that one soon. -Zac |
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Replies: 23 / Views: 4,470 |
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Posted 10/31/2008 5:46 pm
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