| Author |
Replies: 12 / Views: 1,922 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1613 Posts |
The point behind this topic is air my personal opinion on a word overly used and without much thought or knowledge as to it's meaning. Or so from my own perspective. Rare or rarity as it's sometimes defined. At any given moment the word appears on an ebay listing. The late night shows throw it around with an irresponsible frequency. What exactly does the word mean? A specific answer to that question is as many as the ATB Quarter mintages. Generally, there are two types of rarity. Mintage and condition. With the former more or less self explanatory, conditionally often becomes tricky and debatable. By this I'll use the afore mentioned ATB Quarters, specifically the West Point issues. Rare by no means as per mintage numbers, only if you are one of the millions yet to find one in circulation, a vast majority of these have been submitted for grading. When looking at the total number submitted to third party graders it becomes clear as to what conditional rarity means based on those numbers and value is set accordingly. However, on the flip side, circulation grades continue to shrink comparative making these "rare". Yet based on the total mintage this is still rare by no means compared to say a 1916 Standing Liberty. I'll gladly welcome your own definition. Topics such as this need addressed from time to time so as to educate those blindsided with an all too often catch phrase if you will. ANA member - PAN Member - BCCS Member There are no problems only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
543 Posts |
I feel the word 'rare' is used many times when the word 'scarce' will suffice. To me, rare means just a few out of many, such as a 1913 V-nickel, the 1942-S nickel with the reverse of 41-S (if that is even a legitimate coin). Scarce can mean something such as a 2009 nickel, some of the 2010-2012 ATB Quarters. Rare can be relative to an event and not an item. Indian Head cents are not rare, but it is rare to find one in circulation. I have always been very careful on how I use the word rare. Another misuse is when someone finds a coin that looks unusual thinking its a error when it is actually PMD and the person refers to it as 'rare.'
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Supply and Demand adds a wildcard layer on actual quantities.
There are obscure centuries old issues with quantities in the dozens but the base of people collecting them is still smaller so values are still rather low.
Then there are "rare" Morgan's that still have at least thousands floating around that can pull in $10k+ Because 10s of thousands of people want them.
Edited by Collects82 05/16/2020 11:49 am
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
Mintage vs. Condition Rarity The 1909-S VDB Cent is indeed rare by mintage. It is not so by condition. Many, MANY were saved as the first year of issue. Easy enough to buy a MS example if you have deep enough pockets. The 1914-D Cent is rare by both mintage and condition. Five years after 1909 it was not saved in large numbers. Given a sufficiently large coin show there will be several VDBs but few 14-Ds available. Coins minted for collectors since 1987 will never be rare.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3628 Posts |
The West Point ATB Quarters are today's 1950-D Jefferson. The mintages are similar, and the speed with which they are pulled from circulation guarantees an adequate supply of AU-UNC examples going forward. When the mild excitement wears off, I suspect they will be similarly priced, in the <$10 range. What the mint achieved by releasing the West Point quarters only to circulation and not making them available in rolls or mini-bags for ATB program subscribers was to destroy the value of every now-incomplete UNC roll set of ATBs. This, in turn, will breed contempt for any future mint series program coins, and ultimately cost the mint profit. In short, it was a dumb gimmick by the mint. "Rare" is badly overused, and "unique" is its sidekick. The sole legal 1933 Double Eagle is unique. The 1884 and 1885 proof Trade dollars are rare. I have no problem with coins described as "condition rarities." Several Morgan dollars fit this description, with prices near melt below VF and prices comparable to cars or houses above AU-55. Unfortunately, today's eBay-driven pop language definitions are as follows:  "Unique" means "It's the only one I've seen"  "Rare" means "I'm selling it"  "Scarce" means "I only have a dozen more"  "Valuable" means "I need the Benjamins"  "High grade" means "My blurry pics make it look better than the two-bagger it is"  "Gem+++" means "Whizzed with a Dremel Tool"  "Collector Grade" means "It's been collecting dust in my house, and I want it to collect dust in yours, now"
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts |
Here is a "rarity" scale developed by David Lawrence for Barber coins. It is equally valid for all series of coins. It combines mintage, condition and availability criteria. A coin may be R1 in good, R3 in very fine and R5 in AU. R1: Common date and grade R2: Better date and grade R3: Tough date - available, but may require some looking R4: Scarce - may or may not find at larger shows/auctions R5: Very scarce - only a few offered for sale each year R6: Almost never seen - only one or two may be offered for sale in a year's time R7: Rare - a single specimen might, on average, be offered for sale once every few years R8: Unique, or nearly so (fortcollins, your ebay definitions are unfortunately too true)
|
|
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12256 Posts |
Years ago, a member of my local coin club got up during show-and-tell and described a very rare matte proof American Silver Eagle ( ASE) he had come across. He had never seen a similar example and so "knew" that it was a rare piece that must have mistakenly been released by the Mint. We were intrigued to say the least. When a few of us got the chance to examine the coin, we quickly realized that it was a regular issue bullion coin. True, it had a satiny finish like some matte proof coins have, but it was just a run-of-the-mill bullion ASE. (Almost all of them have the finish!) It was a case of a collector of mostly world coins not being familiar with the piece and so deciding it was rare. I believe this happens often on ebay, Etsy and other on-line venues. The seller is unfamiliar with the piece he/she is offering and so describes it as rare. While I certainly agree that deception is the goal for some sellers, I do think that some are simply ignorant regarding what they are selling and know that folks like to buy "rare" things - especially at bargain prices! 
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4989 Posts |
Rare doesn't mean valuable, and common doesn't mean cheap. CC Morgan dollars, for example, were found by the millions in bags - so many so, in fact, that the GSA had to expend a lot of time and energy auctioning them all off to the public. Despite being extremely common in high grades, though, CC dollars are very popular with collectors because of the mystique of the "wild west" so the coins command a price premium in the market. Same is true for the 1909-S VDB pennies, which are abundant in high grades. Many later LWC are extremely scarce in high grades, but don't come close to the value of the 1909-S VDB because they are just not as widely collected.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
Guys, unfortunately the English language is not nearly as precise as we need for our hobby. Checking dictionaries: rare, scarce, and uncommon are synonyms. The only thing we can agree on is that there is more common stuff than rare stuff. I think that we would agree that the terms: Common, very common, and abundant are ascending the scale, while rare and very rare descend the scale. But comparing common to rare, there is not agreed upon precision. is it 10 times, 100 times, 1000 times the numbers?
That is why collectors would be better off if they agreed upon a scale like the one presented by David Lawrence. We need an agreed upon language to make sense of vague language.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9395 Posts |
Traditionally, in US coinage, "Rare" was equivalent to R5 or R-5 on the Sheldon Scale (31-75 specimens known). I don't have a single rare US coin, by this definition.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
7934 Posts |
I think the scale given by @matthewvincent pretty much covers it, and allows us to drop vague adjectives like scarce and rare. I am looking at a coin up for auction soon, where I can find about 10 examples that have sold in the last 8 years in auction databases I use. Since I could be missing some examples, that probably puts it somewhere around R5 level. Which is where one of the catalogs puts it. I don't collect ATB Quarters, but I guess the ones in question might rank R2 on that scale? Also around where a 1909-S VDB would be, which sounds odd, but is accurate (it is a valuable coin, but not at all scarce, as pointed out by matthewvincent).
Edited by tdziemia 05/17/2020 08:18 am
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
For me it's simple. Rare means I don't have one and need one.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I have used the Sheldon Rarity Scale and have for about 42 years, and his scale was developed almost 70 years ago. On that scale Rare is defined as 31 to 75 known and that is how I use the word. This refers to absolute rarity not condition rarity.
fenton is right, rare doesn't always mean expensive. I have some very rare coins that are only a couple hundred dollars, and some common coins that are much more expensive
|
| |
Replies: 12 / Views: 1,922 |
|