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Silver 1957 D Lincoln Penny

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ijn1944's Avatar
United States
19229 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking forward to the TPG assessment. Please share the results when they come in.
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bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24180 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Merged 2 topics on the same coin.
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keyser21's Avatar
16 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keyser21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
westernsky and BigSilver,

You two gentlemen (not to be sexist, but my guess) probably have considerably more expertise and knowledge than I with Numismatics. So, please enlighten me (trying to learn thru the Forum) as to why you feel that this oddball LMC has to be copper and cannot be some other material - it is non-magnetic. It weighs considerably less (about 25%) than copper LMCs and pings the same as a silver dime if dropped onto any surface - does not clunk.

If there were never any 1957 silver errors graded, then I would agree with you, but these are out there somewhere, and I am sure that there is more than one.
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BigSilver's Avatar
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2843 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You two gentlemen

guilty as charged (can't speak for Westernsky)

Quote:
why you feel that this oddball LMC has to be copper and cannot be some other material

Its a question of the evidence that exists to make one believe that it is not copper. We need not make any assumptions to see that the coin is corroded. The weight, mass, and the "ping" are easily explained (in my opinion) by the obvious corrosion. Over 1 BILLION cents were minted in Denver in 1957. The mere fact that some were minted in an off-metal does not have any bearing on the coin you have in your hand. So all evidence to the contrary of the given assumption is negated. Moreover, you are making the assumption that somehow this coin evaded capture by anybody capable of telling the difference between orange-brown and white and ended up buried somewhere or in a dirty change cup somewhere. It is rare for such collectible coins to be missed. (it is technically possible that it was lost from a collection, but the more assumptions needed to make this possible, the less likely it becomes.)

Quote:
If there were never any 1957 silver errors graded, then I would agree with you, but these are out there somewhere, and I am sure that there is more than one.

That statement is not as simple as you would think. When it comes to things like Doubled Dies we would say that a lack of other known examples nearly proves a coin to be not a true doubled die. But when it comes to off metals, it does not need to be true.
My advice is to try and find a local jeweler with an XRF machine. In 10 seconds you will have your answer and not have to waste the cost of grading (or a grading voucher)
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westernsky's Avatar
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7635 Posts
 Posted 09/14/2020  4:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westernsky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is what it is and will stand, or fail, on its own merits.

Based on my (gentleman, yes and thank you!) 50+ years of fooling with coins, you have found yourself a severely corroded and damaged 1957-D cent that you feel is made of something besides the copper alloy as intended.

I have not made this offer in a while but I am doing so today! So, without hesitation here goes:

If you submit this coin for authentication (no worry about a grade, we already know that that'll be!) and it comes back as a slabbed genuine off-metal mint error I will gladly consume my share of a well-cooked crow pie!

I have made this offer numerous times since I've been a member of this forum and have not had to cook one up yet!

While waiting, I think I'll enjoy some !




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keyser21's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2020  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keyser21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most excellent response - thanks ever so much - I knew I could count on one of folks for some constructive logic.

I will attempt to locate a jeweler with the XRF equipment.
Before that, I was wondering what your thoughts were regarding the Archimedes' Principle and water displacement for determining coin density. I have a graduated cylinder somewhere in my garage attic, but it might take longer to find it as opposed to buying a new one thru Amazon.

As far as this coin never being discovered before is concerned. I have been throwing LMCs into jugs since around 1978. Before that I am guessing the coin might have been buried in the soil, once blackened no one would give it a second look.

I found it only by accident when weighing about 800 corroded LMCs from about 100 lbs of LMCs. I was trying to sort the copper ones from zinc ones, and this fit neither weight population. So, I started to investigate it further.
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keyser21's Avatar
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 Posted 09/14/2020  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keyser21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK westernsky - you are too funny. We have a side wager then. I have this morbid curiosity to quash all naysayers, so get these ingredients on order in about three or four weeks. I will keep all of you posted with the findings either way.

Crow Pie
Ingredients
1 crow
stuffing of your choice
salt and pepper
shortening
flour
2 Pie crust mixes
2-3 hard-boiled eggs
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 Posted 09/15/2020  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lcutler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is absolutely no chance on earth that this coin is on a silver planchet. Everything points to a normal corroded copper cent. Silver does not corrode like copper, weight is as would be expected for a coin that has corroded. There is just absolutely nothing about this coin that points to anything except a normal corroded copper cent.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Slight variation on crow pie:
Add 1/2 kilogram of road base.
Cook until the road base is soft.

When the road base is soft,
throw the crow away, and eat the road base.
Valued Member
United States
119 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lc2424 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been told , this coin doesn't exist , or it's not on variety Vista , we need the date and mint mark to verify , and to that point all first coins was found not based of books or others found in that same shape , form , or fashion . Example is the 82 d penny , a guy kept looking till one was found , rare yes just like yours if it comes out true , do I doubt it , yes in someway I do , but no harm in trying so more power to you
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keyser21's Avatar
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 Posted 09/15/2020  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keyser21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lc2424,

Thanks for your post and the lead to Variety Vista - very nice site and super info. I have been out of the coin game for about 30 years and coming back up to speed again so much to re-learn. However, I do appreciate your insight.

I tried to test some coins today with the water displacement method, but my 100 mL graduated cylinder does not have fine enough graduations for splitting hairs. I ordered a smaller set thru Amazon this afternoon that might be here late tomorrow.

VBR
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bobby131313's Avatar
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24180 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  7:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I tried to test some coins today with the water displacement method, but my 100 mL graduated cylinder does not have fine enough graduations for splitting hairs. I ordered a smaller set thru Amazon this afternoon that might be here late tomorrow.


Not going to prove anything, the coin is quite obviously not all there.
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keyser21's Avatar
16 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keyser21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The water displacement testing may not prove anything precisely, but it will indicate toward the "suspect" coin either aluminum, silver or copper, as I am guessing most of these planchets are not pure materials anyway. It does not necessarily need to be a coin either works with rings, metal bars, and anything else. I used this to find a fake silver bar I had in my collection versus the others.

You do not need the entire coin to be present. It is a function of the sample's weight divided by the milliliters of water displaced. The practice has been used for a few years dating back to the Roman days.

BTW, there will be math on the test.

However, I will let Archimedes know that his principle is all wet !*!*!

(Ha - Ha; "I say it's a joke son." (Foghorn Leghorn) - - -
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merclover's Avatar
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10635 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  10:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ha - Ha; "I say it's a joke son."

Why, yes, yes it is.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3207 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2020  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you search a $25 bank box of pennies, odds are you'll find at least one cent as beat up as the one in this thread, and it won't be a silver planchet.
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