'55 Lincoln Wheat Cent / LWC Dingbat Diagnosis / Second Opinion?

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Author	Replies: 12 / Views: 1,588
Kcm Valued Member United States 284 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 11:32 am I've had a great deal of fun with this coin. Maybe too much and I've now got a screw loose. In the images below I see the explosive shattering of the (probably very hot) hammer die microseconds after impact with the planchet surface. I'll try to hawk that strange idea that's overtaken me and see if anyone's willing to put up with my sales pitch or perhaps I'll end up getting pitched. No loss! An interested reader may first want to view: http://goccf.com/t/388940 If you go there to read mine, please also read @coop's. I put together a panel of images to aid in navigating discussion. If this thread dies a quick death, some compass points in the panel won't be needed. The zero/360 degree point passes through the center of the rightmost V-shape in "WE". I posit that the coin displays global damage suffered in an explosive microsecond before the coin was ejected to ride the conveyor belt. My grasp of logic eliminated the possibility of PMD. I have worked with lathes, milling machines, etc. I do not see how (and especially why) someone would or could manage to begin with an intact coin and replicate the damage displayed. I've studied this surface intensely, wrestling, at times with probable Pareidolia. I discount wear as a significant force - little if any circulation, methinks. The lower half of the coin from about 121 degrees to 225 degrees has interesting features. You can check them on your own. I don't see any pushed aside copper in that region. The rim damage seems to radiate from the coin's interior not from outside and not from above. The damage to the central device appears radial; the rim damage reminds me of shrapnel. The side view (in the panel) of the coin rim anomaly from 340 degrees to 10 degrees, contrasts with its direct opposite at 225 degrees to 260 degrees. If I'm right, we see a ruptured section of the press collar contrasted with its intact opposite. Things get really interesting beginning at 250 degrees. A canyon forms that runs to 90 degrees. My interest peaks in the region of 0 degrees. I posted two close-up images. I have others if discussion needs them. In the 0 degrees region, note the incuse chasm between the rim and the opposite canyon wall terminating the strike. The top of "WE" in IGWT was ripped away along with the rim, whereas the rest of "WE" stayed below. Same with the "I" in IGWT. As stated, I have many more images, all taken using a 34 megapixel sensor. They are easier to see but they far exceed the 300 KB CCF limit, but -- once upon a time -- so also did those posted herein. I'm hoping for encouragement, but I'll settle for polite discussion or even for dismissal of my possible folly as long as a modicum of logic remains in the mix. Kevin Edited by Kcm 12/26/2020 11:33 am Report this Post to the Staff

Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4395 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 12:22 pm Die failure is a gradual process. It wouldn't just spontaneously happen after a single strike. Die cracks and breaks would develop over the die's life until the stress causes large pieces to break and separate. I don't see any die cracks on this coin. These marks on the rim and on the higher relief details look like post-mint damage. This is what a coin would look like if you scraped it against a rough surface like concrete. These are what coins would look like struck by a die shortly before or during die failure. http://www.error-ref.com/4880-2/ Report this Post to the Staff
Kcm Valued Member United States 284 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 2:16 pm @Tanman2001, Suggesting you are wrong about this coin, as I do now, does not imply I am right about it. I am right about this: Dies are metal. A sixteenth century farrier would support the assertion that metal failure is most often a gradual process. He might grab a worn down horseshoe for his show-and-tell. He could likewise attest that metal can fail catastrophically when subjected to heat, hammer, and anvil. During his workday, he'd say this protected behind a heavy leather apron. You would find-- even that long ago, silent witnesses. Many a warrior returned from battle with a sword, blade worn down gradually by use. Many others remained dead on the battlefield surrounded by pieces of their weapon shattered by use. Such is the nature of metals. I knew this would not be easy. I see in the documentation CCF affords that you are a published luminary and a force on CCF. I don't need to shame anyone who's earned such accomplishment, nor do I wish to be shamed by anyone that accomplished, but, Sir, your post fails the test of logic I posted. Better you posted "I have no guess, but I'm sure you are wrong." I feel assured that access to LWC's and concrete exists in Pottstown, PA. If you can scrape a Lincoln Cent against concrete and make that coin look in any way like this coin, (no significant scratching of the perimeter rim -- gouges of the rim are OK but several must end half way through) I'll pay you $100.00 for your 30 second creation. I'll put Yours and mine in a holder marked "WhdaThunk," and adjust my grasp of reality. If you are able, please post your pictures.My offer is sincere. Kevin Edited by Kcm 12/26/2020 2:17 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Spence Moderator United States 34397 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 2:45 pm @kcm, early congrats on your 100th post! (You are at 99 as I am tying this). This feels like a thread most appropriate for the US modern error & variety subforum, so I'm planning to move this there in a few minutes when I'm done with my reply. It sounds to me like you are saying that this was the last coin struck by a particular set of dies at the mint because immediately afterward, they shattered into multiple pieces. That would be quite something to see! While I am not an expert in Die Deterioration, I can tell you that many broken off bits of dies seem to grow over time rather than coming cataclysmically. Two examples of that are @coop's animation of the so-called hornet's nest die chip growing over time and the expansion/accumulation of Cuds over multiple coins. Even in @coop's reply that you cite, he talks about an "ageing process" for dies. If he sees this thread and comments, perhaps he can clarify, but my interpretation of his words is that the process of a modern die cracking out is more gradual than you are suggesting. Either way, it is an interesting question to discuss and I look forward to a civil and spirited discourse. Here is a link to the hornet's nest animation: http://goccf.com/t/385561#3301330 "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff
Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4395 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 4:48 pm The Test: TXvq1KWsxR0 The Results: Report this Post to the Staff
Rothery Pillar of the Community 2145 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 5:02 pm Great visual and result @Tanman. You've just produced a cent with "explosive shattering of the hammer die microseconds after impact" - Report this Post to the Staff
T-BOP Rest in Peace United States 18456 Posts	Posted 12/26/2020 6:52 pm Case Closed Report this Post to the Staff
Greasy Fingers Pillar of the Community United States 7006 Posts	Posted 12/27/2020 12:32 am Video title:...."Red shoes kicking the habit of CRH" Nominated best short film of 2020... Report this Post to the Staff
merclover Bedrock of the Community United States 10635 Posts	Posted 12/27/2020 12:55 am Kevin, aka "Kcm," I do believe you owe Tanman a C-note. p.s.-The red shoes are a nice touch! Report this Post to the Staff
merclover Bedrock of the Community United States 10635 Posts	Posted 12/31/2020 4:40 pm Any update on this? Report this Post to the Staff
ijn1944 Bedrock of the Community United States 19129 Posts	Posted 12/31/2020 4:55 pm Hats off to that gallant '56! Immortalized in video. Nice work! Report this Post to the Staff
Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4395 Posts	Posted 12/31/2020 6:07 pm Well I haven't gotten a response... Report this Post to the Staff
merclover Bedrock of the Community United States 10635 Posts	Posted 12/31/2020 7:54 pm Seems like a bet was taken, and now it's pay-up time! Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 12 / Views: 1,588

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'55 LWC Dingbat Diagnosis / Second Opinion?